Aston Martin F1 Team

Aston Martin F1 Team

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Discussion

TheDeuce

9,532 posts

32 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
liner33 said:
I always felt that Vettel was there to help sell motor cars and raise the profile of the team not to get results
I think that you can add that he also has to make Lance look good.

Laurence is clearly a genius at brand marketing, but i just see the DBX as the wrong product at the wrong moment in time.

I really do not get Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini V8+ Chelsea tractors. The Range Rover still looks like the class act amongst these interlopers.
Bit OT but this bothers me too.

Range Rover = correct choice. Anything else in the luxury large SUV market is just try hard in some way and overall delivers less!

All these sports car brands are now churning out their own equivalents as a knee-jerk reaction because the world has gone 'SUV mad', which it has... but I think they're kind of missing the point. The people that can afford such cars are clearly not one car families are they? Hence, traditionally they have gone with a Range Rover because it's the obvious choice, and then the second car has been the fun/sporty/impractical car. So essentially these new luxury SUV's seem to only make sense if very wealthy people decide they no longer want two thoroughbred cars, they want one which is an awkward compromise of both confused

Back to topic.. I do think F1 will help AM to a degree and I can see the cross pollination Lawrence is hoping to achieve. Not all such gambles pay off of course - but I think it's fair to say that if Merc drivetrains and infotainment combined with an extended F1 team campaign can't get AM back on it's feet, nothing can at this point. I also wonder how privy Stroll and Toto are to Mercedes (Daimler) future intentions for F1 involvement and the AM brand. Currently there is cross investment between all entities and players, so I imagine there is more convergence to come and there is probably more of a plan for the future than we have seen play out so far.

TheDeuce

9,532 posts

32 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Piginapoke said:
I'd have £10 on Vettel not completing the season
I bet a tenner that Vettel finds his mojo as soon as Aston Martin get on top of the set up issues.

They'll probably mirror Mercedes and set-up directions will take a similar path. They've already had a migration of staff from Brackley as Mercedes are downsizing for 2022 so that culture and work ethic will find its way into Aston Martin sooner rather than later.
Yes... Aston just need to get on top of the setup issues that forced Seb to rear end another car in the manner of a frustrated rookie. I do feel for him, the Ferrari last year had the same setup issues and caused him to do the same thing then too! What are the chances!?


C350Akra

8,927 posts

246 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Range Rover = correct choice.
Given their massive reliability issues I do not think it is at the moment. For a CEO to address the issue to a shareholders meeting means it really is a problem.

TheDeuce

9,532 posts

32 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
C350Akra said:
TheDeuce said:
Range Rover = correct choice.
Given their massive reliability issues I do not think it is at the moment. For a CEO to address the issue to a shareholders meeting means it really is a problem.
It's true it's not ideal.. but also it's been true of Range Rover since day one pretty much - or at least since the brand started to add trick gadgetry in to the mix alongside the basics of comfort combined with off road ability.

Regardless, the RR lineup remains insanely popular, especially given the tiny size of the JLR operation compared with those they compete with. RR is the default choice for the wealthy in addition to whatever car(s) they want for fun or to show off.

thegreenhell

8,672 posts

185 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
rdjohn said:
liner33 said:
I always felt that Vettel was there to help sell motor cars and raise the profile of the team not to get results
I think that you can add that he also has to make Lance look good.

Laurence is clearly a genius at brand marketing, but i just see the DBX as the wrong product at the wrong moment in time.

I really do not get Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini V8+ Chelsea tractors. The Range Rover still looks like the class act amongst these interlopers.
Bit OT but this bothers me too.

Range Rover = correct choice. Anything else in the luxury large SUV market is just try hard in some way and overall delivers less!

All these sports car brands are now churning out their own equivalents as a knee-jerk reaction because the world has gone 'SUV mad', which it has... but I think they're kind of missing the point. The people that can afford such cars are clearly not one car families are they? Hence, traditionally they have gone with a Range Rover because it's the obvious choice, and then the second car has been the fun/sporty/impractical car. So essentially these new luxury SUV's seem to only make sense if very wealthy people decide they no longer want two thoroughbred cars, they want one which is an awkward compromise of both confused
The UK is but a small island in a much bigger world. Whether you get it or not is irrelevant to the business case for such cars because you're not the primary target market. The markets where these are especially popular have no traditional buyers, and almost certainly would never have had a second sporty car and so aren't looking for that aspect. I'm sure they'll still sell a crap load of them over here too, though.

TheDeuce

9,532 posts

32 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
The UK is but a small island in a much bigger world. Whether you get it or not is irrelevant to the business case for such cars because you're not the primary target market. The markets where these are especially popular have no traditional buyers, and almost certainly would never have had a second sporty car and so aren't looking for that aspect. I'm sure they'll still sell a crap load of them over here too, though.
I wasn't referring to only the UK what part of what I said gave you that impression? RR is the established choice across most of Europe and also sells as many in North America as it does in all of Europe these days too. The BRICS markets are incredibly important too but I would say have already peaked in terms of imported luxury brands as they're now introducing their own.

Who do you believe the primary target market is for the likes of the Bentayga/DBX..? And regardless the market or what is traditional, anyone that can afford such cars can plainly afford a second car if they wish, they can afford whatever. Have you seen the price of something like the DBX in the newer markets around the world..?


Schermerhorn

4,044 posts

155 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Schermerhorn said:
Piginapoke said:
I'd have £10 on Vettel not completing the season
I bet a tenner that Vettel finds his mojo as soon as Aston Martin get on top of the set up issues.

They'll probably mirror Mercedes and set-up directions will take a similar path. They've already had a migration of staff from Brackley as Mercedes are downsizing for 2022 so that culture and work ethic will find its way into Aston Martin sooner rather than later.
Yes... Aston just need to get on top of the setup issues that forced Seb to rear end another car in the manner of a frustrated rookie. I do feel for him, the Ferrari last year had the same setup issues and caused him to do the same thing then too! What are the chances!?
Who did Vettel rear end last year? Wasn't his team mate Charles driving into the back of other cars on lap 1 making dive bomb overtaking attempts?

DickyC

39,901 posts

164 months

Friday 9th April
quotequote all
Time to face facts. He was taken on because his name begins with V.

The Aston Martin Vettel. It's just a matter of time.

exelero

1,342 posts

55 months

Monday 12th April
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
TheDeuce said:
Schermerhorn said:
Piginapoke said:
I'd have £10 on Vettel not completing the season
I bet a tenner that Vettel finds his mojo as soon as Aston Martin get on top of the set up issues.

They'll probably mirror Mercedes and set-up directions will take a similar path. They've already had a migration of staff from Brackley as Mercedes are downsizing for 2022 so that culture and work ethic will find its way into Aston Martin sooner rather than later.
Yes... Aston just need to get on top of the setup issues that forced Seb to rear end another car in the manner of a frustrated rookie. I do feel for him, the Ferrari last year had the same setup issues and caused him to do the same thing then too! What are the chances!?
Who did Vettel rear end last year? Wasn't his team mate Charles driving into the back of other cars on lap 1 making dive bomb overtaking attempts?
Yeah you’re right. Charles did bomb him once, but Vettel had his moments also. I don’t remember him hitting anyone at this moment in time, but I’m sure there were some people smile. Maybe he didn’t last year because he struggled to catch anyone smile

mat205125

16,164 posts

179 months

Monday 12th April
quotequote all
95 fiesta si said:
I think The Hulk would of been a better option then Seb in the first place and they would have saved a nice chunk of change. A 4 time world champion cant come cheap.

Seb seems to have carried on this season where he left off with Ferrari last year, maybe unfair to judge based on one race, but i defo Think Aston Martin getting Hulkenberg in are working on a plan B and lets face it it's not going to be for Stroll is it.
Reckon Hulk is already in the highlands doing the reshoots for the dbx commercials???



Sandpit Steve

3,041 posts

40 months

Monday 12th April
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
It's true it's not ideal.. but also it's been true of Range Rover since day one pretty much - or at least since the brand started to add trick gadgetry in to the mix alongside the basics of comfort combined with off road ability.

Regardless, the RR lineup remains insanely popular, especially given the tiny size of the JLR operation compared with those they compete with. RR is the default choice for the wealthy in addition to whatever car(s) they want for fun or to show off.
For about three decades there was only a Range Rover and a G-Wagen, if you wanted something nice to go off road. Now there’s a dozen similar cars, some even more expensive, the vast majority of which never see mud or sand.

But it’s now at the point where you have little choice as a manufacturer, these big fat trucks sell by the bucketload worldwide and carry huge profit margins. Even Ferrari are getting in on the game next year, and there’s probably someone at McLaren doing a feasibility study on a carbon fibre off-roader as we speak!

The DBX will be more than half AM sales by next year.

TheDeuce

9,532 posts

32 months

Tuesday 13th April
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
It's true it's not ideal.. but also it's been true of Range Rover since day one pretty much - or at least since the brand started to add trick gadgetry in to the mix alongside the basics of comfort combined with off road ability.

Regardless, the RR lineup remains insanely popular, especially given the tiny size of the JLR operation compared with those they compete with. RR is the default choice for the wealthy in addition to whatever car(s) they want for fun or to show off.
For about three decades there was only a Range Rover and a G-Wagen, if you wanted something nice to go off road. Now there’s a dozen similar cars, some even more expensive, the vast majority of which never see mud or sand.

But it’s now at the point where you have little choice as a manufacturer, these big fat trucks sell by the bucketload worldwide and carry huge profit margins. Even Ferrari are getting in on the game next year, and there’s probably someone at McLaren doing a feasibility study on a carbon fibre off-roader as we speak!

The DBX will be more than half AM sales by next year.
I agree with most of that, and for sure all manufacturers are scrabbling to add/expand their SUV offerings. I'm just making the point that in some cases it doesn't actually increase sales, simply that the buyer of the SUV is no longer a buyer of the sportscar. IE a person that used to own a range rover and a Lambo is either going to continue to own one of each, or perhaps attempt to combine the two by buying the Lambo Urus. Either way, Lamborghini haven't sold an additional car.

As for the DBX, I bet it's not more than half their sales - simply because a huge portion of their established customers are used to buying an AM product that is very traditional in terms of it's sportscar credentials. It's clearly converting some established customers and it's certainly bringing in new customers , but I don't see it being more than half total sales. It's also somewhat flawed as an AM as to my eye it doesn't look good enough. The AM lines don't work nearly so well when applied to an SUV..

Mclaren need an SUV for sure, they also need to stop releasing ever more niche and pointless 'new' cars in their sportscar range. They currently have 11 cars in their range! That's more than some mass market road car manufacturers.

HustleRussell

19,398 posts

126 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
I started to find the team much less likeable under Stroll’s ownership. Lawrence needs to be isolated from the press, and that includes using Szafnauer as a mouthpiece.

Lawrence came out very aggressive on the brake ducts thing. Szafnauer’s toadying could be seen on drive to survive.

The team played fast and loose with the safety of others when both of its drivers independently contracted Covid. They appear to have just gotten away with it but at the time it absolutely stank.

Then they were going to take legal action over the regs changes. Again Lawrence’s unmetered aggression manifesting as Szafnauer’s ill-advised actions.

Lawrence seems to have a threatening aura and nobody wants to say ‘no’ to him.

That said, I am happy to see the team as a whole beginning to deliver performances closer to what we have come to expect from them over the years.

I know the involvement of Aston Martin as a brand in F1 has been minimal over the years but it is also nice to see Vettel raising the bar for them.

mat205125

16,164 posts

179 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence seems to have a threatening aura and nobody wants to say ‘no’ to him

.
The drive to survive episode showed his primary priorities as brand and paint samples

Comes across as a bit of a knob, but you don't become a billionaire by being everyone's best buddy

HardtopManual

1,609 posts

132 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
OH NOES SOMEONE IS WRONG ABOUT RANGE ROVERS ON THE INTERNET.

The state some of these threads get into. To quote AM's best driver, "honestly".

HardtopManual

1,609 posts

132 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence seems to have a threatening aura and nobody wants to say ‘no’ to him

.
The drive to survive episode showed his primary priorities as brand and paint samples
Those are his areas of expertise though, no? Might sound trivial to we nerds, but that's what's paying for the racing.

Can't expect him to start pontificating about engineering aspects - he has no expertise in that area.

HustleRussell

19,398 posts

126 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence seems to have a threatening aura and nobody wants to say ‘no’ to him

.
The drive to survive episode showed his primary priorities as brand and paint samples

Comes across as a bit of a knob, but you don't become a billionaire by being everyone's best buddy
The telling bit for me was when he and his assistant arrived in a meeting where everybody else was already seated and loudly said something very similar to “you have 20 minutes. GO!”

Steamer

12,462 posts

179 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
mat205125 said:
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence seems to have a threatening aura and nobody wants to say ‘no’ to him

.
The drive to survive episode showed his primary priorities as brand and paint samples

Comes across as a bit of a knob, but you don't become a billionaire by being everyone's best buddy
The telling bit for me was when he and his assistant arrived in a meeting where everybody else was already seated and loudly said something very similar to “you have 20 minutes. GO!”
I got the impression he'd probably binged The Sopranos during lock down