Official 2020 Eifel Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

Official 2020 Eifel Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

Author
Discussion

thegreenhell

7,658 posts

177 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
thegreenhell said:
A handful of the F1 drivers had a private session on the Nordschleife in road cars yesterday evening. Not the most exciting video, but then neither was FP1 this morning...

Small follow up to this

And another


Sandpit Steve

1,559 posts

32 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
tobinen said:
And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.
That was the point people realised there was something not quite right about the new engine the red cars were running. You don't just gain 50 or 100bhp in one go any more, not when the other manufacturers were going up in 5s and 10s.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
vaud said:
So if they had been less greedy and only sought to match Mercedes or just a teeny but ahead then they may not have been found out?
Maybe... But even by being faster than Mercedes they couldn't beat them overall could they? At certain circuits their outright speed may have given them the advantage but they have a few problems Mercedes don't: Driver error (Seb...), Comical strategy, Team mismanagement, Useless race engineers, Dodgy aero, A TP that was blatantly in Ghostbusters 1 & 2.

Even with full cheat-mode enabled they were overall never going to do anything other than make Mercedes look even better.

Edit 2018 was kinda better Ferrari v Merc, but then they started to update their car, ruined it, and ended the season with their car put back to its original spec - they said they didn't understand it all but it worked best that way.. That's not something you will hear from their competitors! Lest we forget Ferrari have the same budget level as Mercedes too.

Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 15th October 22:25

Fundoreen

1,756 posts

41 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Having watched a typical public day on youtube im suprised anyone gets a lap in without coming upon a crash.
F1 drivers running must have been the quietest day ever.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
Having watched a typical public day on youtube im suprised anyone gets a lap in without coming upon a crash.
F1 drivers running must have been the quietest day ever.
In 'normal' cars it must feel like everything is in slow motion to them. They can get out of shape and feel they all the time in the world to contemplate how to sort it out, along with what they might have for dinner that evening...

I used to play snooker at a local club, on full sized tables. I was hopeless - but when I went from the club to the local pub with it's tiny pool table and gaping pockets I was deadly wink


swisstoni

9,548 posts

237 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
tobinen said:
And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.
That was the point people realised there was something not quite right about the new engine the red cars were running. You don't just gain 50 or 100bhp in one go any more, not when the other manufacturers were going up in 5s and 10s.
Yep. That was my ‘this ain’t right’ moment.
I remember some people saying nah, it must have been because Hamilton was in the wrong gear or harvesting or something. hehe

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
Sandpit Steve said:
tobinen said:
And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.
That was the point people realised there was something not quite right about the new engine the red cars were running. You don't just gain 50 or 100bhp in one go any more, not when the other manufacturers were going up in 5s and 10s.
Yep. That was my ‘this ain’t right’ moment.
I remember some people saying nah, it must have been because Hamilton was in the wrong gear or harvesting or something. hehe
If I'm honest, I struggled to believe it was a cheat - solely on the basis it would be too blatant. Also slightly because the car became very tricky at around the same time, so it was possible it was just a shedding of downforce for speed.

But then the GPS showed how fast they were pushing out of corners at speeds below aero drag really being a factor.. I STILL struggled to believe it could be a cheat. Even Brundle who wines and dines up and down the grid and knows just about every rumour is on record saying that he didn't believe in times of modern corporate responsibility they would risk such a cheat. But then Red Bull hypothesized how it could be done and the dots were joined, both for me and clearly the FIA. It was obvious how and what they were doing.

The level of the unsporting nature of the cheat boggles the mind. It can't be passed off as skirting the regs or 'innovating'. The entire championship is fought under fuel flow regulated limits, they cheated that limit! It's as unforgivable as taking a shortcut each lap and missing out part of the circuit! Still can't believe they thought it was a good idea. Turns out it definitely wasn't, as they're now not even half way through their two year punishment of dismal performance stuck in the midfield...

Bellends.

Oilchange

6,378 posts

218 months

Friday 16th October
quotequote all
It does take a certain level of arrogance to assume you can get away with something like that.
Maybe they were lulled into a false sense of security from so much time under the benevolent Ecclestone...

faa77

510 posts

29 months

Friday 16th October
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
If I'm honest, I struggled to believe it was a cheat - solely on the basis it would be too blatant. Also slightly because the car became very tricky at around the same time, so it was possible it was just a shedding of downforce for speed.

But then the GPS showed how fast they were pushing out of corners at speeds below aero drag really being a factor.. I STILL struggled to believe it could be a cheat. Even Brundle who wines and dines up and down the grid and knows just about every rumour is on record saying that he didn't believe in times of modern corporate responsibility they would risk such a cheat. But then Red Bull hypothesized how it could be done and the dots were joined, both for me and clearly the FIA. It was obvious how and what they were doing.

The level of the unsporting nature of the cheat boggles the mind. It can't be passed off as skirting the regs or 'innovating'. The entire championship is fought under fuel flow regulated limits, they cheated that limit! It's as unforgivable as taking a shortcut each lap and missing out part of the circuit! Still can't believe they thought it was a good idea. Turns out it definitely wasn't, as they're now not even half way through their two year punishment of dismal performance stuck in the midfield...

Bellends.
Didn't they negotiate ability to develop their engine next year in return for approving the 2020 spending cap?

jsf

19,251 posts

194 months

Friday 16th October
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
Having watched a typical public day on youtube im suprised anyone gets a lap in without coming upon a crash.
F1 drivers running must have been the quietest day ever.
I gave up on the place after Clarkson did his top gear thing and every bellend in Europe learned about the circuit.

Pre Clarkson it was superb, post Clarkson it was a disaster. Real shame.

The F1 drivers were extremely slow and sensible.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Friday 16th October
quotequote all
faa77 said:
TheDeuce said:
If I'm honest, I struggled to believe it was a cheat - solely on the basis it would be too blatant. Also slightly because the car became very tricky at around the same time, so it was possible it was just a shedding of downforce for speed.

But then the GPS showed how fast they were pushing out of corners at speeds below aero drag really being a factor.. I STILL struggled to believe it could be a cheat. Even Brundle who wines and dines up and down the grid and knows just about every rumour is on record saying that he didn't believe in times of modern corporate responsibility they would risk such a cheat. But then Red Bull hypothesized how it could be done and the dots were joined, both for me and clearly the FIA. It was obvious how and what they were doing.

The level of the unsporting nature of the cheat boggles the mind. It can't be passed off as skirting the regs or 'innovating'. The entire championship is fought under fuel flow regulated limits, they cheated that limit! It's as unforgivable as taking a shortcut each lap and missing out part of the circuit! Still can't believe they thought it was a good idea. Turns out it definitely wasn't, as they're now not even half way through their two year punishment of dismal performance stuck in the midfield...

Bellends.
Didn't they negotiate ability to develop their engine next year in return for approving the 2020 spending cap?
And not blocking the 2020 freeze on ice dev too, that's the suspicion at least, they could have blocked either.

But yes, they can bring in an updated PU next season but then they're stuck with a car that was somewhat compromised last minute to work with the current PU (which is essentially a cheat free version of last year's).

They had been rushing to get the new PU ready for this season start but failed to do so.

Based on the compromises and out of step development it hardly sounds like they'll be changing their fortunes next year imo. And Binotto himself is adamant they won't. To build a competitive front running F1 car these days you'd want to develop and evolve the car and PU simultaneously in order to complement one another perfectly. They can't do that until 2022 now..

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Friday 16th October
quotequote all
jsf said:
Fundoreen said:
Having watched a typical public day on youtube im suprised anyone gets a lap in without coming upon a crash.
F1 drivers running must have been the quietest day ever.
I gave up on the place after Clarkson did his top gear thing and every bellend in Europe learned about the circuit.

Pre Clarkson it was superb, post Clarkson it was a disaster. Real shame.

The F1 drivers were extremely slow and sensible.
Did he really have such an effect? I definitely knew a few bellends that visited ahead of that episode going out!

I think by that point car makers were already pushing the 'developed at the nurburgring' line which must have driven interest too.

jsf

19,251 posts

194 months

Saturday 17th October
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Did he really have such an effect? I definitely knew a few bellends that visited ahead of that episode going out!

I think by that point car makers were already pushing the 'developed at the nurburgring' line which must have driven interest too.
Yes it did, changed it almost overnight. I was there when they filmed it, I was a regular there, went every 2-3 weeks, at one point I was the only person in the Pistenclaus at night and was driving the circuit in snow. laugh That's when I realised i might have an addiction. biggrin

I've driven the circuit twice in the last 10 years on TF, complete waste of time. I wont go now unless its a proper closed session with no public.
It's also absurdly expensive now, you'd need to have deep pockets to do the number of laps I used to.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Saturday 17th October
quotequote all
jsf said:
TheDeuce said:
Did he really have such an effect? I definitely knew a few bellends that visited ahead of that episode going out!

I think by that point car makers were already pushing the 'developed at the nurburgring' line which must have driven interest too.
Yes it did, changed it almost overnight. I was there when they filmed it, I was a regular there, went every 2-3 weeks, at one point I was the only person in the Pistenclaus at night and was driving the circuit in snow. laugh That's when I realised i might have an addiction. biggrin

I've driven the circuit twice in the last 10 years on TF, complete waste of time. I wont go now unless its a proper closed session with no public.
It's also absurdly expensive now, you'd need to have deep pockets to do the number of laps I used to.
That's a shame - but good things do tend to get popular > get ruined.

Also back when JC drove the ring he had global audience of 250 million, granted that will have drawn people to the circuit to have a go themselves..

I accidentally dyed his feet blue once, if that makes you feel better?

faa77

510 posts

29 months

Saturday 17th October
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Based on the compromises and out of step development it hardly sounds like they'll be changing their fortunes next year imo. And Binotto himself is adamant they won't.
Yes but he's hardly going to say they'll smash next year and put pressure on himself.

Better to play down prospects and over-achieve, than the opposite.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Saturday 17th October
quotequote all
faa77 said:
TheDeuce said:
Based on the compromises and out of step development it hardly sounds like they'll be changing their fortunes next year imo. And Binotto himself is adamant they won't.
Yes but he's hardly going to say they'll smash next year and put pressure on himself.

Better to play down prospects and over-achieve, than the opposite.
Ferrari don't have a history of saying the upcoming Ferrari might be a bit st unless it's so st it's better to admit it in advance rather than look stupid.

Hence pre-season testing this year, they announced it was a turd and indeed it was a turd. The same rhetoric has continued since.

In anycase, looking at where they are today and the limitations in place, they can only polish said turd to a very limited degree. Even if Binotto had said nothing, that much would still be true. Next seasons Ferrari will be at best mildly better than at present - that's the limit. 2022 is a fresh start for everyone but until then Ferrari are screwed.

For the sake of balance, their recent progress has been quite good, they're clearly making the very best of nasty situation which they landed themselves in. They're not entirely embarrassing each GP.. They're making the best of the chassis and PU they have - neither of which were designed for the other and they can't change both until 2022.

Stratovarious

5,833 posts

136 months

Saturday 17th October
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
.... I accidentally dyed his (Clarkson's) feet blue once, if that makes you feel better?
You can't say stuff like that and just leave it! Tell us the story!!


Edited by Stratovarious on Wednesday 21st October 23:21