Official 2020 Eifel Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[TheDeuce]

Leithen said:

TheDeuce said:

Derek Smith said:

The more I see of the Renault engine this season, the more I am wondering if the McLaren choice of power unit for next season is necessarily going to be an upgrade.

It is an upgrade - it'll run harder for longer than the others which is great for quali. Once out in front the Merc drivers are generally just maintaining the gap. Other than quali we don't get to see their reserve of power very often.

It will be 2022 before they have a design built around the Merc Power Unit though, so next year will probably be standing still in relative terms.

A good point. It's ultimately down to how well they implement the PU and what potential compromises it brings. Time will tell on that point.

Especially relevant going in to next season as I'm not sure how much they're allowed to change the car design with the current freeze on chassis development. Obviously they have to adapt the back end to work with the new mounting points and rear suspension etc.. They had signed with Merc ahead of knowing they would need to use this years car next year so perhaps that will scupper them to a degree.

[Derek Smith]

TheDeuce said:

Leithen said:

TheDeuce said:

Derek Smith said:

The more I see of the Renault engine this season, the more I am wondering if the McLaren choice of power unit for next season is necessarily going to be an upgrade.

It is an upgrade - it'll run harder for longer than the others which is great for quali. Once out in front the Merc drivers are generally just maintaining the gap. Other than quali we don't get to see their reserve of power very often.

It will be 2022 before they have a design built around the Merc Power Unit though, so next year will probably be standing still in relative terms.

A good point. It's ultimately down to how well they implement the PU and what potential compromises it brings. Time will tell on that point.

Especially relevant going in to next season as I'm not sure how much they're allowed to change the car design with the current freeze on chassis development. Obviously they have to adapt the back end to work with the new mounting points and rear suspension etc.. They had signed with Merc ahead of knowing they would need to use this years car next year so perhaps that will scupper them to a degree.

I'm been a McL fan since MP4 started. There were some great times but they seem to have the skill of jumping from the lifeboat onto a sinking ship with a high degree of accuracy. Think the worst, and if it doesn't happen . . . . what am I saying? The worst always happens.

[M5-911]

Sad to see Raikonen wearing a mask with the iron cross on his mask (his own brand).
His management will bring all the story that it was a sign used before the WW2 but let's not forget that Kimi knows that Jesse James use the Iron cross branding as he is a well known Neo Nazi.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

I'm been a McL fan since MP4 started. There were some great times but they seem to have the skill of jumping from the lifeboat onto a sinking ship with a high degree of accuracy. Think the worst, and if it doesn't happen . . . . what am I saying? The worst always happens.

McLaren have been at the front end of the 2nd tier teams for 2 years Derek.

Engine integration will be a piece of cake compared to the old days, the current engine rules make the things virtually interchangeable.

[TheDeuce]

DR forgot to do the shoey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvfnf6Alth8

Looks genuinely gutted when he's reminded.

[Hazmat1]

M5-911 said:

Sad to see Raikonen wearing a mask with the iron cross on his mask (his own brand).
His management will bring all the story that it was a sign used before the WW2 but let's not forget that Kimi knows that Jesse James use the Iron cross branding as he is a well known Neo Nazi.

So your saying kimi is a Neo Nazi sympathiser and part of their global propaganda machine .. Jesus fking Christ.

[majordad]

Remember Seaman and his supposed Nazi salute, Kimi is sound as was Seaman.

[Pericoloso]

TheDeuce said:

DR forgot to do the shoey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvfnf6Alth8

Looks genuinely gutted when he's reminded.

Thy showed him doing it on the CH4 highlights show .

[TheDeuce]

Pericoloso said:

TheDeuce said:

DR forgot to do the shoey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvfnf6Alth8

Looks genuinely gutted when he's reminded.

Thy showed him doing it on the CH4 highlights show .

I'm still catching up, he did it after he was reminded I guess?

[Leithen]

Derek Smith said:

TheDeuce said:

Leithen said:

TheDeuce said:

Derek Smith said:

The more I see of the Renault engine this season, the more I am wondering if the McLaren choice of power unit for next season is necessarily going to be an upgrade.

It is an upgrade - it'll run harder for longer than the others which is great for quali. Once out in front the Merc drivers are generally just maintaining the gap. Other than quali we don't get to see their reserve of power very often.

It will be 2022 before they have a design built around the Merc Power Unit though, so next year will probably be standing still in relative terms.

A good point. It's ultimately down to how well they implement the PU and what potential compromises it brings. Time will tell on that point.

Especially relevant going in to next season as I'm not sure how much they're allowed to change the car design with the current freeze on chassis development. Obviously they have to adapt the back end to work with the new mounting points and rear suspension etc.. They had signed with Merc ahead of knowing they would need to use this years car next year so perhaps that will scupper them to a degree.

I'm been a McL fan since MP4 started. There were some great times but they seem to have the skill of jumping from the lifeboat onto a sinking ship with a high degree of accuracy. Think the worst, and if it doesn't happen . . . . what am I saying? The worst always happens.

I wouldn't be too pessimistic Derek, for a couple of reasons.

First Andreas Seidl. I think he's the real deal and in many ways an old school team principal. More engineer than manager, but excellent at both.

Second, Zak Brown. Until I listened to Will Buxton's F1 podcast interviewing him ( https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mclaren...), I had my doubts. But, as with so many things, I then realised I had probably entirely misjudged him.

I think it will take a few years, but I think they have a long term plan and it's realistic.

[TheDeuce]

Leithen said:

Derek Smith said:

TheDeuce said:

Leithen said:

TheDeuce said:

Derek Smith said:

The more I see of the Renault engine this season, the more I am wondering if the McLaren choice of power unit for next season is necessarily going to be an upgrade.

It is an upgrade - it'll run harder for longer than the others which is great for quali. Once out in front the Merc drivers are generally just maintaining the gap. Other than quali we don't get to see their reserve of power very often.

It will be 2022 before they have a design built around the Merc Power Unit though, so next year will probably be standing still in relative terms.

A good point. It's ultimately down to how well they implement the PU and what potential compromises it brings. Time will tell on that point.

Especially relevant going in to next season as I'm not sure how much they're allowed to change the car design with the current freeze on chassis development. Obviously they have to adapt the back end to work with the new mounting points and rear suspension etc.. They had signed with Merc ahead of knowing they would need to use this years car next year so perhaps that will scupper them to a degree.

I'm been a McL fan since MP4 started. There were some great times but they seem to have the skill of jumping from the lifeboat onto a sinking ship with a high degree of accuracy. Think the worst, and if it doesn't happen . . . . what am I saying? The worst always happens.

I wouldn't be too pessimistic Derek, for a couple of reasons.

First Andreas Seidl. I think he's the real deal and in many ways an old school team principal. More engineer than manager, but excellent at both.

Second, Zak Brown. Until I listened to Will Buxton's F1 podcast interviewing him ( https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mclaren...), I had my doubts. But, as with so many things, I then realised I had probably entirely misjudged him.

I think it will take a few years, but I think they have a long term plan and it's realistic.

Whatever we see next year, what really matters for all teams is 2022 season, when so much changes. If McLaren can maintain their current position on the grid at that point it will job well done. It's difficult to judge where the teams could be then, based on where they are now. We don't know how much resource some teams might have already directed to 2022 (was going to be 2021) last season.

I agree McLaren and Zak seem to be on a good path, but the 2022 changes could throw up a few surprises in terms of where each team is really at. It'll be a very interesting season start for sure, some teams will have punched above or fallen below where they are currently. On that basis I'd hold of predictions for any team beyond next season. Even Merc could 'get it wrong' as the specs change so drastically.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

If all McLaren take from the switch to mercedes is reliability it’ll be a good move.

I don’t know how many are down to the renault side of things but getting two McLarens across the finish line seems to be a miracle these days.

[Teddy Lop]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

If all McLaren take from the switch to mercedes is reliability it’ll be a good move.

I don’t know how many are down to the renault side of things but getting two McLarens across the finish line seems to be a miracle these days.

Not quite sure what the debate is about - sundays win and the first of the customer cars were both Merc powered, and Merc powered cars lead both drivers and constructors in both factory and customer catagories, with the latter leading two factory teams including Renault. And Renault's podium was arguably by a comedyclowncarcarryon race directors decision from Perez.

Know where my money would be.

[Derek Smith]

The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.

[TheDeuce]

Derek Smith said:

The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.

I quite agree Derek. For me F1 these days is two championships in one, the battle to win outright and the battle for top of midfield. I know the likes of McLaren and Renault aren't in contention for titles but they're locked in their battle, now with RP and for them that battle is just as important and dramatic as the battles between teams at the very top of the grid.

The only reason this season isn't as great as last imo is that Mercedes are relatively unchallenged now due to Ferrari and likewise red bull are no longer tangling with Ferrari most races. So the battle for first/second/third isn't as intense perhaps.. but the midfield certainly makes up for it.

[Byker28i]

Derek Smith said:

The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.

I agree Norris had a very good weekend, just a shame the car didn't finish

[Gad-Westy]

TheDeuce said:

Derek Smith said:

The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.

I quite agree Derek. For me F1 these days is two championships in one, the battle to win outright and the battle for top of midfield. I know the likes of McLaren and Renault aren't in contention for titles but they're locked in their battle, now with RP and for them that battle is just as important and dramatic as the battles between teams at the very top of the grid.

The only reason this season isn't as great as last imo is that Mercedes are relatively unchallenged now due to Ferrari and likewise red bull are no longer tangling with Ferrari most races. So the battle for first/second/third isn't as intense perhaps.. but the midfield certainly makes up for it.

On that note. It's amazing to think how far Ferrari have fallen in just one year. To use a football analogy, it's like the they've been relegated from the premier league to league 1 without having a stint in the championship first. Their battle seems to be with AT only. McLaren, Tracing Point and Renault are comfortably ahead.

[TheDeuce]

Gad-Westy said:

On that note. It's amazing to think how far Ferrari have fallen in just one year. To use a football analogy, it's like the they've been relegated from the premier league to league 1 without having a stint in the championship first. Their battle seems to be with AT only. McLaren, Tracing Point and Renault are comfortably ahead.

Or amazing to think how much they were benefitting from their cheating last season...

Although even with the cheat spec Ferrari the RB car was as competitive - just a shame they didn't have a solid second driver, if they had, they probably would have pushed Ferrari down to third in WCC.

[faa77]

What i simply don't understand is how you base your entire future on a cheat AND not have a back-up plan, in case you're caught?!

Edited by faa77 on Thursday 15th October 12:32

[TheDeuce]

faa77 said:

What i simply don't understand is how you base your entirely future on a cheat AND not have a back-up plan, in case you're caught?!

That would depend on whether or not Ferrari were able to legally keep pace with the others in terms of hybrid PU development. It's extremely complex stuff, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they might have hit an internal limit on how much they can extract.

We don't know how long they were cheating for after all..

They also seem to struggle with the dark art of modern F1 aero so I'm not convinced they can produce reliable downforce to the extent Mercedes can without creating higher levels of drag. Say they had a legal equivalent PU to Mercedes today - could they produce a similarly competitive car?

Sounds like I'm having a dig at Ferrari, but the fact is that cheating didn't get them ahead, so perhaps it was motivated by the fact they had to cheat or had to struggle to be competitive. There was only a chance they'd be caught cheating, whereas not doing so might have been a 100% certainty they'd be uncompetitive - which for Ferrari is probably worse than being caught cheating!