Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender

Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender

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Discussion

Dusty964

6,867 posts

162 months

Thursday 25th November
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768 said:
100%

They had female drivers in a session when Formula E first went to Diriyah I'm pretty sure, I think it was said to be at the request of the Saudi authorities even. They know they need to outwardly appeal to the west, that's more important than allowing women to drive on the roads was.

When the circus leaves town they can relax and do some chop chop again.
I'm stood at Diriyah right now. There are plenty of women driving past. As there are throughout Riyadh.


768

9,863 posts

68 months

Thursday 25th November
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I meant even more important, not suggesting they don't have women driving.

cgt2

2,322 posts

160 months

Thursday 25th November
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Wasn't there a huge global conference planned there a couple of years back which was then derailed by news of the murder in Istanbul? I seem to remember lots of big names pulling out and it was a complete flop.

Still a week to go until the F1...

768

9,863 posts

68 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
Davos in the Desert. I think quite a few big names pulled out that year, but they carried on and are still doing them annually, covid's probably more of an issue for it these days.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

11,907 posts

38 months

Thursday 25th November
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I think it must be about time for the official thread Piginapoke... ?

smile

patmahe

5,447 posts

176 months

Thursday 25th November
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Schermerhorn said:
patmahe said:
Not trying to be all virtue signally about this but I don't think F1 should be going to places with such a poor record regarding human rights. I'm choosing not to watch this race even though I'm an F1 fanatic and loving the 2021 season. The line has to be drawn somewhere and viewership figures (money) are the only language the organisers seem to understand.

F1 can paint this any way they want but it's a money decision plain and simple.
So is China. Their campaign against the Uhyguirs has not stopped.....

So is Bahrain. Remember when F1 boycotted the race over the Arab Spring only to return a year later?

So is the UAE and their slave-built empire...

So is Narco-Mexico.

F1 will always prostitute itself to the highest bidder.

Or are we being selectively outraged depending on which country it is?
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but F1 needs to decide what it stands for, no point having 1.6 V6 hybrids claiming they are ultra efficient and environmentally friendly and having 'we race as one' as a thing and then going somewhere like Saudi, with its oil money and questionable human rights record.

I know some will claim it's a force for change and I did like Lewis' stance with his rainbow crash helmet in Qatar, but if F1 really wants to be clean cut it needs to decide that once and for all.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

11,907 posts

38 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
patmahe said:
Schermerhorn said:
patmahe said:
Not trying to be all virtue signally about this but I don't think F1 should be going to places with such a poor record regarding human rights. I'm choosing not to watch this race even though I'm an F1 fanatic and loving the 2021 season. The line has to be drawn somewhere and viewership figures (money) are the only language the organisers seem to understand.

F1 can paint this any way they want but it's a money decision plain and simple.
So is China. Their campaign against the Uhyguirs has not stopped.....

So is Bahrain. Remember when F1 boycotted the race over the Arab Spring only to return a year later?

So is the UAE and their slave-built empire...

So is Narco-Mexico.

F1 will always prostitute itself to the highest bidder.

Or are we being selectively outraged depending on which country it is?
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but F1 needs to decide what it stands for, no point having 1.6 V6 hybrids claiming they are ultra efficient and environmentally friendly and having 'we race as one' as a thing and then going somewhere like Saudi, with its oil money and questionable human rights record.

I know some will claim it's a force for change and I did like Lewis' stance with his rainbow crash helmet in Qatar, but if F1 really wants to be clean cut it needs to decide that once and for all.
What's not clean cut? F1 has the power to do a little to change views, why should it not go to places where that might be useful?

Why does it matter at all what is uncomfortable about certain countries on the calendar, so long as F1 doesn't make anything worse but can perhaps have a small positive effect longer term.

Ash_

5,289 posts

162 months

Thursday 25th November
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Let's not kid ourselves and believe what's been said by the FIA that they're going there to "change views", their presence will have little impact and they know this, they're going there because they're being paid a ton of cash, no other reason at all. To think otherwise IMO is deluded.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

11,907 posts

38 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
Ash_ said:
Let's not kid ourselves and believe what's been said by the FIA that they're going there to "change views", their presence will have little impact and they know this, they're going there because they're being paid a ton of cash, no other reason at all. To think otherwise IMO is deluded.
No one has even mentioned what the FIA or F1 say about why they're going. Who cares what their motivation is!? We're talking about whether it's actually a good or bad thing, not how the PR people choose to sell it.

Teddy Lop

6,094 posts

39 months

Friday 26th November
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Sandpit Steve said:
I know they’re starting from a very low base, but the younger leaders in KSA are at least trying to modernise the country, and the F1 is part of this.

Rather like with Greta the climate activist, if all people do is criticise whatever steps are taken as not being nearly enough, then the often huge progress that has been made gets ignored. KSA in 2021, is a very different place from only a decade or two ago.

Better to see, as you say, dozens of women working and not wearing burkas, and Lewis wearing his rainbow helmet.

We can always find reasons not to go to any country, but it’s always much better to try and show the people in these countries the good parts of Western customs and values.
That's a good point - Criticism of the surface layer comes easy and I'm not innocent of that either, but a lot of the conflicts the Arab world is in with itself are remarkably comparable to those in the western world.

Newarch

989 posts

9 months

Friday 26th November
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This is an excellent thread. I have absolutely no interest in F1 whatsoever (I'm a fan of men who race in leather trousers instead), but there are some really good points floating around on both sides of the argument.

I do think that sometimes positive reinforcement is better than self righteous condemnation, and that it will probably achieve the desired results much more quickly. The laws and customs we (rightly) find so abhorrent in the West aren't dissimilar to laws we once had over here, nor is the social composition which comprises a small wealthy elite, propped up by a large poor majority with little or no representation.

The Deuce and others are right to say that the UK (amongst others) is hardly beyond reproach nor non complicit in feting the status quo in Saudi Arabia or in its own record on many issues.

In the long term its got to be better to get people onside rather than alienate and exclude them. See also Russia, China, Iran, North Korea etc. They may not want to be onside but it weakens their position if they are seen to be unwilling to co-operate.

rampageturke

1,393 posts

134 months

Friday 26th November
quotequote all
Unsure about the source itself, but sebs thoughts on the matter

https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-i-dont-know-well...