Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender
Discussion
768 said:
100%
They had female drivers in a session when Formula E first went to Diriyah I'm pretty sure, I think it was said to be at the request of the Saudi authorities even. They know they need to outwardly appeal to the west, that's more important than allowing women to drive on the roads was.
When the circus leaves town they can relax and do some chop chop again.
I'm stood at Diriyah right now. There are plenty of women driving past. As there are throughout Riyadh.They had female drivers in a session when Formula E first went to Diriyah I'm pretty sure, I think it was said to be at the request of the Saudi authorities even. They know they need to outwardly appeal to the west, that's more important than allowing women to drive on the roads was.
When the circus leaves town they can relax and do some chop chop again.
Schermerhorn said:
patmahe said:
Not trying to be all virtue signally about this but I don't think F1 should be going to places with such a poor record regarding human rights. I'm choosing not to watch this race even though I'm an F1 fanatic and loving the 2021 season. The line has to be drawn somewhere and viewership figures (money) are the only language the organisers seem to understand.
F1 can paint this any way they want but it's a money decision plain and simple.
So is China. Their campaign against the Uhyguirs has not stopped.....F1 can paint this any way they want but it's a money decision plain and simple.
So is Bahrain. Remember when F1 boycotted the race over the Arab Spring only to return a year later?
So is the UAE and their slave-built empire...
So is Narco-Mexico.
F1 will always prostitute itself to the highest bidder.
Or are we being selectively outraged depending on which country it is?
I know some will claim it's a force for change and I did like Lewis' stance with his rainbow crash helmet in Qatar, but if F1 really wants to be clean cut it needs to decide that once and for all.
patmahe said:
Schermerhorn said:
patmahe said:
Not trying to be all virtue signally about this but I don't think F1 should be going to places with such a poor record regarding human rights. I'm choosing not to watch this race even though I'm an F1 fanatic and loving the 2021 season. The line has to be drawn somewhere and viewership figures (money) are the only language the organisers seem to understand.
F1 can paint this any way they want but it's a money decision plain and simple.
So is China. Their campaign against the Uhyguirs has not stopped.....F1 can paint this any way they want but it's a money decision plain and simple.
So is Bahrain. Remember when F1 boycotted the race over the Arab Spring only to return a year later?
So is the UAE and their slave-built empire...
So is Narco-Mexico.
F1 will always prostitute itself to the highest bidder.
Or are we being selectively outraged depending on which country it is?
I know some will claim it's a force for change and I did like Lewis' stance with his rainbow crash helmet in Qatar, but if F1 really wants to be clean cut it needs to decide that once and for all.
Why does it matter at all what is uncomfortable about certain countries on the calendar, so long as F1 doesn't make anything worse but can perhaps have a small positive effect longer term.
Let's not kid ourselves and believe what's been said by the FIA that they're going there to "change views", their presence will have little impact and they know this, they're going there because they're being paid a ton of cash, no other reason at all. To think otherwise IMO is deluded.
Ash_ said:
Let's not kid ourselves and believe what's been said by the FIA that they're going there to "change views", their presence will have little impact and they know this, they're going there because they're being paid a ton of cash, no other reason at all. To think otherwise IMO is deluded.
No one has even mentioned what the FIA or F1 say about why they're going. Who cares what their motivation is!? We're talking about whether it's actually a good or bad thing, not how the PR people choose to sell it.Sandpit Steve said:
I know they’re starting from a very low base, but the younger leaders in KSA are at least trying to modernise the country, and the F1 is part of this.
Rather like with Greta the climate activist, if all people do is criticise whatever steps are taken as not being nearly enough, then the often huge progress that has been made gets ignored. KSA in 2021, is a very different place from only a decade or two ago.
Better to see, as you say, dozens of women working and not wearing burkas, and Lewis wearing his rainbow helmet.
We can always find reasons not to go to any country, but it’s always much better to try and show the people in these countries the good parts of Western customs and values.
That's a good point - Criticism of the surface layer comes easy and I'm not innocent of that either, but a lot of the conflicts the Arab world is in with itself are remarkably comparable to those in the western world.Rather like with Greta the climate activist, if all people do is criticise whatever steps are taken as not being nearly enough, then the often huge progress that has been made gets ignored. KSA in 2021, is a very different place from only a decade or two ago.
Better to see, as you say, dozens of women working and not wearing burkas, and Lewis wearing his rainbow helmet.
We can always find reasons not to go to any country, but it’s always much better to try and show the people in these countries the good parts of Western customs and values.
This is an excellent thread. I have absolutely no interest in F1 whatsoever (I'm a fan of men who race in leather trousers instead), but there are some really good points floating around on both sides of the argument.
I do think that sometimes positive reinforcement is better than self righteous condemnation, and that it will probably achieve the desired results much more quickly. The laws and customs we (rightly) find so abhorrent in the West aren't dissimilar to laws we once had over here, nor is the social composition which comprises a small wealthy elite, propped up by a large poor majority with little or no representation.
The Deuce and others are right to say that the UK (amongst others) is hardly beyond reproach nor non complicit in feting the status quo in Saudi Arabia or in its own record on many issues.
In the long term its got to be better to get people onside rather than alienate and exclude them. See also Russia, China, Iran, North Korea etc. They may not want to be onside but it weakens their position if they are seen to be unwilling to co-operate.
I do think that sometimes positive reinforcement is better than self righteous condemnation, and that it will probably achieve the desired results much more quickly. The laws and customs we (rightly) find so abhorrent in the West aren't dissimilar to laws we once had over here, nor is the social composition which comprises a small wealthy elite, propped up by a large poor majority with little or no representation.
The Deuce and others are right to say that the UK (amongst others) is hardly beyond reproach nor non complicit in feting the status quo in Saudi Arabia or in its own record on many issues.
In the long term its got to be better to get people onside rather than alienate and exclude them. See also Russia, China, Iran, North Korea etc. They may not want to be onside but it weakens their position if they are seen to be unwilling to co-operate.
Unsure about the source itself, but sebs thoughts on the matter
https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-i-dont-know-well...
https://thesportsrush.com/f1-news-i-dont-know-well...
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