Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender

Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender

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Discussion

TriumphStag3.0V8

1,866 posts

53 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
quotequote all
kevinon said:
This.

I'd suggest SA's $50 m annual fee to F1 will have zero effect on how the rest of the world looks on them. But F1 will have sold it as a way to window dress their image and 'show a different picture to the world'. There's a better chance of Prince Andrew becoming a beloved national treasure.
And Pizza Express Woking, a National Heritage Site?

vaud

42,506 posts

127 months

Thursday 5th November 2020
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Pretty much Canada at present. (Also Japan, I think). They seem like nice civilised places.
Japan - on the surface, yes...

Schermerhorn

4,170 posts

161 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
vaud said:
Deesee said:
Pretty much Canada at present. (Also Japan, I think). They seem like nice civilised places.
Japan - on the surface, yes...
Mexico - on the surface...looks nice. Stray into cartel land and there are headless corpses hanging off bridges or burning in oil drums.

Sandpit Steve

4,898 posts

46 months

Friday 6th November 2020
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TheDeuce said:
The image showing the layout near the water is from google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saudi+Arabia/@21...

They're using existing roads for almost the entire circuit - so they are where they are.. You can see there is a bit more space than initially obvious if you zoom in, but for sure at places it'll just have to be track>barrier wall. Which is actually fine, it can makes the cars look faster than an expanse of open space.

Are they transforming Jeddah in to a tourists resort? Or do you mean Qiddiya? That's where they're in theory moving to in a few years as a permanent circuit, also in the same area will be a huge amusement park, mall, golf etc.
Interesting link, thanks. There’s a couple of problematic bits with no runoff, but they’ll get away wit it if they put the barriers at the edge of the circuit. I quite like the “park” circuits in Australia and Canada, where mistakes are punished

I just read the announcement again, and now realise that there’s two circuits - the temporary street circuit in Jeddah, then a new track in Qiddiya in a few years’ time.

Qiddiya is the massive new tourist city they’re building, the new Saudi leaders are slowly trying to liberalise the country and look to non-oil sources of revenue. They look at what places like Dubai have done and realise there’s money to be made. There’s even a rumour that the Qibbiya hotels might have bars!

vaud

42,506 posts

127 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Mexico - on the surface...looks nice. Stray into cartel land and there are headless corpses hanging off bridges or burning in oil drums.
Hence my earlier comment:

In first world countries with an active death penalty (US, Japan, Bahrain, Singapore)
In places with appalling records on fair trials with 99% conviction rates (Japan)
Or high levels of corruption and drugs (Mexico, Brazil, etc)
Or countries with historic links to the slave trade and stripping assets from countries (UK, etc)

All depends where you draw you moral lines...

...if the race acts as further catalyst for change (and Saudi is slowly changing as they try to wean themselves off oil) then good.

sgtBerbatov

2,597 posts

53 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Looks like we have an update on the layout



3/4 DRS zones... Tilkes finest work..
I like that. And the new hashtag - #WeRaceAsOneAsLongAsYouAreNotAGayOrAWoman

CallThatMusic

1,951 posts

60 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
sgtBerbatov said:
Deesee said:
Looks like we have an update on the layout



3/4 DRS zones... Tilkes finest work..
I like that. And the new hashtag - #WeRaceAsOneAsLongAsYouAreNotAGayOrAWoman
A Nail in the coffin of F1.


RobGT81

5,178 posts

158 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
Everyone is perfectly happy with Russia, China and Turkey. But Saudi Arabia, cue the faux outrage! Hamilton will take a knee and it will all be fine.

vaud

42,506 posts

127 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
Everyone is perfectly happy with Russia, China and Turkey. But Saudi Arabia, cue the faux outrage! Hamilton will take a knee and it will all be fine.
Quite.

Sandpit Steve

4,898 posts

46 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
Everyone is perfectly happy with Russia, China and Turkey. But Saudi Arabia, cue the faux outrage! Hamilton will take a knee and it will all be fine.
At least, unlike the others, Saudi Arabia is actually trying to move in the right direction.

It could certainly be argued that the progress is too slow, that they’re only doing it because the demand for oil is falling, and that we shouldn’t be going there until more progress is made - but they are making a genuine effort to modernise the country.

CallThatMusic

1,951 posts

60 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
RobGT81 said:
Everyone is perfectly happy with Russia, China and Turkey. But Saudi Arabia, cue the faux outrage! Hamilton will take a knee and it will all be fine.
At least, unlike the others, Saudi Arabia is actually trying to move in the right direction.

It could certainly be argued that the progress is too slow, that they’re only doing it because the demand for oil is falling, and that we shouldn’t be going there until more progress is made - but they are making a genuine effort to modernise the country.
True, also murdering and dismembering journalists who challenge...

Piginapoke

2,655 posts

157 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
CallThatMusic said:
Sandpit Steve said:
RobGT81 said:
Everyone is perfectly happy with Russia, China and Turkey. But Saudi Arabia, cue the faux outrage! Hamilton will take a knee and it will all be fine.
At least, unlike the others, Saudi Arabia is actually trying to move in the right direction.

It could certainly be argued that the progress is too slow, that they’re only doing it because the demand for oil is falling, and that we shouldn’t be going there until more progress is made - but they are making a genuine effort to modernise the country.
True, also murdering and dismembering journalists who challenge...
From Amnesty International:

Death penalty

Courts continued to impose death sentences for a wide range of crimes and carried out scores of executions; there was an increase in executions for drug offences and terrorism-related crimes. The authorities generally failed to abide by international standards of fair trial and safeguards for defendants in capital cases. Such cases were often held in secret and their proceedings were summary with no legal assistance or representation for defendants, as well as no translation services for foreign nationals, through the various stages of detention and trial. Death sentences were regularly based on “confessions” that defendants said were extracted under torture.

On 23 April, 37 Saudi Arabian men were executed. They had been convicted in various trials before the SCC. Most were Shi’a Muslims convicted after grossly unfair trials that relied on “confessions” tainted by torture allegations. among the 37 were 11 convicted of spying for Iran. At least 15 others were convicted of violent offences related to their participation in anti-government demonstrations in the Shi’a-majority Eastern Province between 2011 and 2012. They were subjected to prolonged pre-trial detention and told the court that they were tortured or otherwise ill-treated during interrogation to make them “confess”. among them was Abdulkareem al-Hawaj, a young Shi’a man who was arrested when aged 16.[5]

Still, at least Runeveryinchoftheworld had a good time.

Sandpit Steve

4,898 posts

46 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
CallThatMusic said:
True, also murdering and dismembering journalists who challenge...
Yeah, that one too.

Western countries have mostly learned to be much more subtle in making enemies disappear.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

12,102 posts

38 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
vaud said:
Schermerhorn said:
Mexico - on the surface...looks nice. Stray into cartel land and there are headless corpses hanging off bridges or burning in oil drums.
Hence my earlier comment:

In first world countries with an active death penalty (US, Japan, Bahrain, Singapore)
In places with appalling records on fair trials with 99% conviction rates (Japan)
Or high levels of corruption and drugs (Mexico, Brazil, etc)
Or countries with historic links to the slave trade and stripping assets from countries (UK, etc)

All depends where you draw you moral lines...

...if the race acts as further catalyst for change (and Saudi is slowly changing as they try to wean themselves off oil) then good.
F1 alone won't change anything significantly, but as a small part of an endless import of western products and industries in to the region, it's all having an effect. The more the young folk are interested in Western culture and views, the more they'll start to second guess some aspects of their traditional upbringing.

Blib

38,638 posts

169 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Are you suggesting that the US and Saudi justice systems are somehow comparable?

Blimey.

confused

Exige77

6,514 posts

163 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Are you saying Human rights in Saudi are the same as in USA ?

Just checking

Exige77

6,514 posts

163 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Are you trolling ?

Surely no one can be that uninformed ?

One country has their leaders elected by their citizens. If they don’t like what they are doing, they can vote them out.

The other country is a dictatorship which is wholly unaccountable to anyone. There are no human rights.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

12,102 posts

38 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is all pointless anyway. Clearly they have certain practises we don't approve of over there. The more western culture they absorb via TV, movies, sport, politics etc the more each new generation starts to question the old ways.

F1 should not avoid such places out of some silly desire not to be associated. Spread our culture if we're proud of it, and trust that it's inevitable that over time, other cultures will take from it.

Blib

38,638 posts

169 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
There's no answer to that! hehe

MB140

3,063 posts

75 months

Friday 6th November 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
Everyone is perfectly happy with Russia, China and Turkey. But Saudi Arabia, cue the faux outrage! Hamilton will take a knee and it will all be fine.
It will be fine as you say. Doesn’t make it right though