Bottas revealed

Bottas revealed

Author
Discussion

Paul671

290 posts

171 months

Monday 7th December 2020
quotequote all
Bottas is a fantastic 2nd/journeyman driver (maybe the greatest ever), on and off the track. I can't see the advantage of replacing him with anyone else, what would you gain?

TheDeuce

8,912 posts

30 months

Monday 7th December 2020
quotequote all
Paul671 said:
Bottas is a fantastic 2nd/journeyman driver (maybe the greatest ever), on and off the track. I can't see the advantage of replacing him with anyone else, what would you gain?
Nothing as a team. But certain fans are basically anarchists and don't bother about common sense, they just want the exciting thing to happen.

They want George today, they don't give any thought to Mercedes longer term game plan or why for next season it's best to leave Lewis and bottas in place to get the important titles nailed. They just want to see a battle in the top car.

Christ knows what they think Merc paid billions for to deliver the top car. I assume it was to set records, not give a few chumps a wet dream by opting for a needless battle when they can instead scoop the big prize.

Armchair Expert

677 posts

38 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
kambites said:
Then the other teams need to do better, don't they? I'd love to see the teams closer together, but if performance is leveled by artificial means it ceases to be meaningful advertising for anyone.

As for Bottas, I think he's probably around the middle of the grid in terms of pure talent but by and large he does exactly what Mercedes want him to do so he's the perfect driver for that car.

Edited by kambites on Monday 7th December 18:55
I don't get why the other top teams haven't figured out what Mercedes are doing and caught up with them?

However it was just as frustrating when Vettel was winning every time with Red Bull or Ferreri with Schumacher.

TheDeuce said:
Nothing as a team. But certain fans are basically anarchists and don't bother about common sense, they just want the exciting thing to happen.

They want George today, they don't give any thought to Mercedes longer term game plan or why for next season it's best to leave Lewis and bottas in place to get the important titles nailed. They just want to see a battle in the top car.

Christ knows what they think Merc paid billions for to deliver the top car. I assume it was to set records, not give a few chumps a wet dream by opting for a needless battle when they can instead scoop the big prize.
But F1 is about entertaining the chumps.



C70R

7,843 posts

68 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Indeed. But

a) It's not up to Lewis

b) This is a business. In business, you don't rock the boat unnecessarily.

Team has won world championship
Lead driver has won world championship
Second driver has (will) come second in championship.

If you're a team manager, why change anything?

The time for change will come when Lewis needs replacing. I suspect that change will come in 2022 and George will come in for a Hamilton retirement in 2023/2024.
This.

Some naive folk think that F1 is still stuck in the 60s of rich benefactors, playboys aplenty, seat-swapping and no real strategy.

F1 is a highly calculated marketing exercise, with huge budgets. The main job of an F1 team is to deliver ROI against the marketing expenditure.

That's done by:
1. Maximising performance (WDC and WCC) associated with the brand
2. Returning as much revenue directly as possible (via championship win bonuses)

Merc have absolutely nailed both of those for the last seven seasons in succession. The idea that there's some pressure on them to change everything is laughably naive.

spunkytherabbit

392 posts

144 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
Armchair Expert said:
kambites said:
Then the other teams need to do better, don't they? I'd love to see the teams closer together, but if performance is leveled by artificial means it ceases to be meaningful advertising for anyone.

As for Bottas, I think he's probably around the middle of the grid in terms of pure talent but by and large he does exactly what Mercedes want him to do so he's the perfect driver for that car.

Edited by kambites on Monday 7th December 18:55
I don't get why the other top teams haven't figured out what Mercedes are doing and caught up with them?

However it was just as frustrating when Vettel was winning every time with Red Bull or Ferreri with Schumacher.

TheDeuce said:
Nothing as a team. But certain fans are basically anarchists and don't bother about common sense, they just want the exciting thing to happen.

They want George today, they don't give any thought to Mercedes longer term game plan or why for next season it's best to leave Lewis and bottas in place to get the important titles nailed. They just want to see a battle in the top car.

Christ knows what they think Merc paid billions for to deliver the top car. I assume it was to set records, not give a few chumps a wet dream by opting for a needless battle when they can instead scoop the big prize.
But F1 is about entertaining the chumps.
That is true, and as much as I agree with Deuce, I'm not beyond been a chump at times and calling for Russell to replace Bottas next year. For the simple reason that it is such a tantalising prospect. And in 'chump mode' I'll jump on the Bottas bashing too.

But as someone sensible pointed out in response to a 'chump post' from me, Bottas has helped deliver several WCC and by large has been a decent wingman picking up the point when Hamilton misses out. What more could the team ask of him beyond more consistency of late? Especially when he is driving knowing he is never going to win and will likely be out of a drive at the end of 2021.


mat205125

16,100 posts

177 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
There are dozens of existing threads where trolls can hate on Hamilton. Why this particular one chose to create a new thread is beyond me.
Anyone regular around here will see this thread for what it is - a thinly disguised dig at Lewis Hamilton.
Please don’t feed the troll any further.
First troll comment I've seen

RobGT81

5,159 posts

150 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
It's a team sport. There's up to 1200 people on each team who couldn't care less where in the drivers championship their drivers finish.

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...

illmonkey

13,793 posts

162 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
sparta6 said:
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
It's a team sport. There's up to 1200 people on each team who couldn't care less where in the drivers championship their drivers finish.
Apart from the bonus all of said team get if they win the championship.


RobGT81

5,159 posts

150 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
illmonkey said:
Apart from the bonus all of said team get if they win the championship.
The bonus for the constructors championship, not the drivers championship.

illmonkey

13,793 posts

162 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
The bonus for the constructors championship, not the drivers championship.
That'll teach me to skim read!

Although I'd argue the drivers need to be doing well to win constructors championships, so they probably care about that too.

The Moose

20,773 posts

173 months

C70R

7,843 posts

68 months

Tuesday 8th December 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
It's a team sport. There's up to 1200 people on each team who couldn't care less where in the drivers championship their drivers finish.
While the money is paid from F1 to the teams for the WCC win, the teams themselves pay bonuses to a large chunk of the staff for WDC wins too.

So you're talking out of your hoop.

sparta6

Original Poster:

2,504 posts

64 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...
Really ???

Did you catch the Webber vs Vettel, or Ricciardo vs Max races ?



MarkwG

2,915 posts

153 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...
Really ???

Did you catch the Webber vs Vettel, or Ricciardo vs Max races ?
You mean the Multi 21 years...?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/truth-behind-red...

sparta6

Original Poster:

2,504 posts

64 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...
Really ???

Did you catch the Webber vs Vettel, or Ricciardo vs Max races ?
You mean the Multi 21 years...?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/truth-behind-red...
I mean the close wheel-to-wheel battles at Red Bull.

At least sleepy Bottas is being paid to snooze hehe






Exige77

6,023 posts

155 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
MarkwG said:
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...
Really ???

Did you catch the Webber vs Vettel, or Ricciardo vs Max races ?
You mean the Multi 21 years...?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/truth-behind-red...
I mean the close wheel-to-wheel battles at Red Bull.

At least sleepy Bottas is being paid to snooze hehe
He’s being paid to help the team win championships.

Sure you’re not interested in Bottas, just trying to make Lewis look bad as usual smile

HighwayStar

3,320 posts

108 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
sparta6 said:
MarkwG said:
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...
Really ???

Did you catch the Webber vs Vettel, or Ricciardo vs Max races ?
You mean the Multi 21 years...?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/truth-behind-red...
I mean the close wheel-to-wheel battles at Red Bull.

At least sleepy Bottas is being paid to snooze hehe
He’s being paid to help the team win championships.

Sure you’re not interested in Bottas, just trying to make Lewis look bad as usual smile
It’s his standard MO thumbup

C70R

7,843 posts

68 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
It’s his standard MO thumbup
Imagine looking at everything in your life, the finite amount of time you spend on earth; and deciding that a good use of that time is to persistently troll a sportsman on an anonymous internet message board.

It's really quite sad, and probably reflects more on sparta than anyone else. I feel a bit sorry for him in truth.

Muzzer79

4,536 posts

151 months

Wednesday 9th December 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
MarkwG said:
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
I think we all know the situation.

Having two top drivers doesn’t always win WDC/WCC. They fight.
It's sport. Each driver should be fighting for the championship.
Mercedes have bagged every championship even when Lewis was fighting Rosberg.
Mercedes let their drivers race much more than a certain fizzy drink team...
Really ???

Did you catch the Webber vs Vettel, or Ricciardo vs Max races ?
You mean the Multi 21 years...?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/truth-behind-red...
I mean the close wheel-to-wheel battles at Red Bull.

At least sleepy Bottas is being paid to snooze hehe
You realise that Webber, whom you cite as an example, essentially was Bottas at Red Bull back in the early 2010s?

Whilst Sebastian swept all before him, Webber was 3rd in 2010, 3rd in 2011, 6th in 2012 and third again in 2013.

Not once, in 4 seasons and 34 wins for Vettel during 2010-2013 did Webber finish runner-up and "fight for the championship"
Webber only won 7 races in that period.

So please don't try and pretend that Bottas is doing anything less than be Gerhard Berger in the late 80's, David Coulthard in the late 90s, Rubens Barrichello in the early 2000s or Mark Webber in the early 2010s.....