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kiseca said:
One that popped up recently on PH from a knowledgeable person and challenged my wisdom earned over the years from magazine soundbites: How much of a Formula 1 car's suspension movement is in the suspension, and how much is in the tyre?
I'd heard, either on TV or in magazines, that more than 50% of the car's suspension movement is undamped movement in the tyre sidewall. I also recall from John Barnard's book that he did away with conventional suspension joints and replaced them with flattened, flexible ends on the suspension arms, because the suspension hardly moves and a flexing arm can manage it.
However, I've just 15 minutes ago seen a post saying that the suspension, particularly the rear suspension, moves a lot, and posted a picture showing a Merc's rear end leaning at an appreciable angle. I trust the poster, but I also trust my memory, so I need a tie-breaker
Just to be clear, this varies a lot from era to era and for different reasons around how that car generation generates its grip.I'd heard, either on TV or in magazines, that more than 50% of the car's suspension movement is undamped movement in the tyre sidewall. I also recall from John Barnard's book that he did away with conventional suspension joints and replaced them with flattened, flexible ends on the suspension arms, because the suspension hardly moves and a flexing arm can manage it.
However, I've just 15 minutes ago seen a post saying that the suspension, particularly the rear suspension, moves a lot, and posted a picture showing a Merc's rear end leaning at an appreciable angle. I trust the poster, but I also trust my memory, so I need a tie-breaker
Edited by kiseca on Monday 4th January 16:57
I could give you the deflection dyno curves for some F1 tyres that show you deflection due to load and high speed growth, but it's confidential info. I use that info to calculate ride height change that occurs as speed increases.
The best place to see how much the cars move their suspension is if you watch them from the rear through the Beckets complex at Silverstone, it will blow your mind.
I asked this on Twitter to Gary Anderson, he didn't respond, so I'll ask here.
So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
sgtBerbatov said:
I asked this on Twitter to Gary Anderson, he didn't respond, so I'll ask here.
So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
the reason the Virgin VR01 struggled was it was grotesquely overweight and very low in downforce So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
the safety margins on the mechanical parts were huge so there was only 1 Kg of ballast on the car whereas the Mclaren had about 40 kg of ballast ( and associated COG gain)
and yes there was an offset shall we say in what was required from the car to turn the tyre 'on' and the what the CFD said was required
turns out a bit of windtunnel data to give you a datum isn't such a bad idea.........
350Matt said:
sgtBerbatov said:
I asked this on Twitter to Gary Anderson, he didn't respond, so I'll ask here.
So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
the reason the Virgin VR01 struggled was it was grotesquely overweight and very low in downforce So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
the safety margins on the mechanical parts were huge so there was only 1 Kg of ballast on the car whereas the Mclaren had about 40 kg of ballast ( and associated COG gain)
and yes there was an offset shall we say in what was required from the car to turn the tyre 'on' and the what the CFD said was required
turns out a bit of windtunnel data to give you a datum isn't such a bad idea.........
But how much of that cock up was down to the designer or to CFD? And how is a wind tunnel that much different to what CFD can provide?
Thing is, I don't know much about either, so I can't really articulate what I'm trying to get at.
sgtBerbatov said:
350Matt said:
sgtBerbatov said:
I asked this on Twitter to Gary Anderson, he didn't respond, so I'll ask here.
So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
the reason the Virgin VR01 struggled was it was grotesquely overweight and very low in downforce So Nick Writh did a lot of work with CFD, both with Simtek and Marussia/Virgin/Manor racing. The latter being CFD only, having never seen a wind tunnel. It didn't work out, and none of the F1 teams seem to use CFD only, and use it in conjunction with a wind tunnel.
My question though is, why? Is it because CFD match the data given by wind tunnels? Or is it a cost thing?
the safety margins on the mechanical parts were huge so there was only 1 Kg of ballast on the car whereas the Mclaren had about 40 kg of ballast ( and associated COG gain)
and yes there was an offset shall we say in what was required from the car to turn the tyre 'on' and the what the CFD said was required
turns out a bit of windtunnel data to give you a datum isn't such a bad idea.........
But how much of that cock up was down to the designer or to CFD? And how is a wind tunnel that much different to what CFD can provide?
Thing is, I don't know much about either, so I can't really articulate what I'm trying to get at.
Muzzer79 said:
Who's the most talented driver you've seen driving for a team you've been in?
MikaMuzzer79 said:
How did you get into it?
Knew as a teenager it's what I wanted to do and worked out what I needed to concentrate on to give me the best chance of getting there. Maths and physics at school got me to a good engineering degree. Then post grad studies and a relentless work ethic got me in to it.Muzzer79 said:
Which era of regulations did you/do you find the most satisfying and why?
The next regulations are always the most interesting.kiseca said:
One that popped up recently on PH from a knowledgeable person and challenged my wisdom earned over the years from magazine soundbites: How much of a Formula 1 car's suspension movement is in the suspension, and how much is in the tyre?
I'd heard, either on TV or in magazines, that more than 50% of the car's suspension movement is undamped movement in the tyre sidewall. I also recall from John Barnard's book that he did away with conventional suspension joints and replaced them with flattened, flexible ends on the suspension arms, because the suspension hardly moves and a flexing arm can manage it.
However, I've just 15 minutes ago seen a post saying that the suspension, particularly the rear suspension, moves a lot, and posted a picture showing a Merc's rear end leaning at an appreciable angle. I trust the poster, but I also trust my memory, so I need a tie-breaker
50% would be a reasonable approximation for the front. Much less at the rear where heave travel is far greater.I'd heard, either on TV or in magazines, that more than 50% of the car's suspension movement is undamped movement in the tyre sidewall. I also recall from John Barnard's book that he did away with conventional suspension joints and replaced them with flattened, flexible ends on the suspension arms, because the suspension hardly moves and a flexing arm can manage it.
However, I've just 15 minutes ago seen a post saying that the suspension, particularly the rear suspension, moves a lot, and posted a picture showing a Merc's rear end leaning at an appreciable angle. I trust the poster, but I also trust my memory, so I need a tie-breaker
Flexures were indeed favoured for a period but not so much anymore. I think last time I saw them used was c.2014 on the inboard end of the front wishbones of some cars.
Did you hate the new noise when the major engine changed a few years back?
I suspect we are all used to it now......but I hated that first season!
How do you feel Formula E will shake things up as we move slowly away from the 'fossil fuel' era into a world of EVs? Are you (& the teams) influenced by it in any way?
I suspect we are all used to it now......but I hated that first season!
How do you feel Formula E will shake things up as we move slowly away from the 'fossil fuel' era into a world of EVs? Are you (& the teams) influenced by it in any way?
Steamer said:
How many hours a week were you working? (average-ish if possible)
Whats the work / life balance like?
It varies depending on the time of year, your role, travelling, the project you're working on and whatever the pressures/deadlines are. Average 55hrs/week across the year I'd say.Whats the work / life balance like?
Work:life balance is what you make of it. Some people live for the job so have no life outside of it, but they're on cloud 9 doing it so all is good. Some people see it as just a job and keep the balance in context of that outlook. Everyone's different!
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
how do you feel when you've spent hours designing a part for the car, that the drivers then say is 'st' and makes the car worse. And then the second driver says the same thing.
and then in another paradigm, it gets fitted on to the car again and the new driver loves it and goes 0.5s quicker.
An important part of being a good engineer is leaving emotional attachment aside, remaining impartial to them, and following rational data to give you the fastest bits. I'd like to think I'm good at doing this, but seeing a part/process/procedure you've worked on make the car go faster is always a great feeling.and then in another paradigm, it gets fitted on to the car again and the new driver loves it and goes 0.5s quicker.
pistonheadforum said:
Have you ever worked with anybody who is a lead-swinging-by-the-book-sorry-on-me-tea-break-that's-not-my-job-out-the-door-by-4:30 sharp type or are they all super keen do anything superstars pulling all nighters?
No-to-the-first-bit, yes but to differing extents for the second bit. Everyone is keen, not everyone is super-keen.AnonymousF1 said:
kiseca said:
One that popped up recently on PH from a knowledgeable person and challenged my wisdom earned over the years from magazine soundbites: How much of a Formula 1 car's suspension movement is in the suspension, and how much is in the tyre?
I'd heard, either on TV or in magazines, that more than 50% of the car's suspension movement is undamped movement in the tyre sidewall. I also recall from John Barnard's book that he did away with conventional suspension joints and replaced them with flattened, flexible ends on the suspension arms, because the suspension hardly moves and a flexing arm can manage it.
However, I've just 15 minutes ago seen a post saying that the suspension, particularly the rear suspension, moves a lot, and posted a picture showing a Merc's rear end leaning at an appreciable angle. I trust the poster, but I also trust my memory, so I need a tie-breaker
50% would be a reasonable approximation for the front. Much less at the rear where heave travel is far greater.I'd heard, either on TV or in magazines, that more than 50% of the car's suspension movement is undamped movement in the tyre sidewall. I also recall from John Barnard's book that he did away with conventional suspension joints and replaced them with flattened, flexible ends on the suspension arms, because the suspension hardly moves and a flexing arm can manage it.
However, I've just 15 minutes ago seen a post saying that the suspension, particularly the rear suspension, moves a lot, and posted a picture showing a Merc's rear end leaning at an appreciable angle. I trust the poster, but I also trust my memory, so I need a tie-breaker
Flexures were indeed favoured for a period but not so much anymore. I think last time I saw them used was c.2014 on the inboard end of the front wishbones of some cars.
How big an impact will 18inch rims have?
Jasandjules said:
Who has the most input into a "new" design? Do the drivers get a say?
Rarely does a single person put the majority of input in. The different departments all feed in to it, from simulation, to design, to manufacture and testing. The driver's usually have nothing to do with the car's design (most of them don't turn up to drive it until long after the majority of it has been designed and made!) but have input to the setup of the car and altering the handling characteristics to suit them.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff