Ask an F1 Engineer anything

[C2Red]

jimPH said:

Didn't a kid crossover into cars from virtual racing? Heard he did pretty well too.

McLaren GT though, not F1, although he was pretty handy.

The YouTube videos make interesting viewing it’s James Baldwin and Jenson Team Rocket racing.

Edited by C2Red on Friday 5th March 05:47

[robinessex]

Put me, and some others, in a scheme to progress up to an F1 drive, and I think myself, and quite a few others, would be able to post a respectable time. Now, give me a top-flight rally car. and I think my courage would give up before I managed a respectable time.

[markcoznottz]

kiseca said:

In about 1990 Mark Hales had a go in a then current Leyton House around one of Silverstone's short circuit configurations.

I think he managed 6 - 8 laps in total, in two sessions, before his neck muscles could take no more. In that time, his best lap was 4 seconds off Wendlinger's sighting lap in the same car. He reckoned with better fitness and more practice he could get that down to maybe 2 seconds, but felt that Wendlinger's lap wasn't a particularly serious one. In his words: "That's where my ability likely ends and <Karl Wendlinger's> is just beginning."

Mark was at the time an active, experienced and very successful racing driver, mostly in saloons and with experience in BTCC. He was also Fast Lane's primary tester for taking cars on track. He'd be much faster than the average driver.

IMO you can't put a target on how Mr Average would do, because the results would be absolutely all over the place. The average may well be 10% up, or 20% up, or anywhere, but with really high variance meaning that whatever the average ends up being, it would be arbitrary and not useful to predict any individual's performance.

I also believe that if you gave us a week with the car, our actual in car time would still be very limited by a lack of stamina to deal with the G-forces and other forces involved. Despite the power steering and so on, I believe the controls on F1 cars are still heavy. So fatigue would set in quickly until one has had enough time to acclimatise. I'd think that wouldn't happen in a week.

It was 1992 iirc. Fast Lane magazine. And Mark Hales was a good semi pro driver as well. My mate went to the f1 experience at Mallory I was supposed to go but had a funeral that day. It was a 1988 tyrrell that was fitted with a f3000 engine, ie a rev limited dfv maybe 400 bhp ish. Plenty round Mallory. He enjoyed it needless to say was cheap as well, an opportunity missed I think.

[Total loss]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I dont think it's the same, as in a kart you are part of the suspension, ie moving your weight to change the chassis to go around a corner quicker, so lots more than just driving.

[TheDeuce]

Total loss said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I dont think it's the same, as in a kart you are part of the suspension, ie moving your weight to change the chassis to go around a corner quicker, so lots more than just driving.

Also 'a race' is not a weeks worth of specialist pro driver coaching and endless hours track time. We're also talking about being within 10% of a GP average lap time, which compared to a flat out every lap kart race (so, more like a quali lap in F1 terms), would be more like 20 seconds off.

[kiseca]

Total loss said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I dont think it's the same, as in a kart you are part of the suspension, ie moving your weight to change the chassis to go around a corner quicker, so lots more than just driving.

I think in a kart, what you do with your racing lines and keeping momentum counts for a lot more than what you do with your weight.

I do see a lot of people lean into the corners (and then do the same thing when they're in a regular car..) and I don't think that helps, but more because it means you're steering from your hips instead of from your arms IMO, but you're referring to leaning outwards I expect. I can see that it also helps your turn in if you can lift the inside back wheel off the track a bit because of the lack of a differential, but as soon as you want to get the power down again, you want both back wheels firmly planted. So I can see an argument for leaning outwards briefly at the turn in point, but not convinced the benefit makes up for the loss of fine control of the steering that moving your body around can have. Good turn in is wasted if you miss your apex or clip the inside tyrewall too hard and scrub off speed.

Personally I just sit up and give my arms a good stable platform for the steering, and it's served me OK. Maybe the next level up can start focusing more on how they're using their weight.

I would think that average, reasonably young and reasonably fit Joe, if they were motivated to achieve it and had enough practice time (more than a week because need the time to get the fitness and strength up too) could get within 10 seconds. I'd also say that if someone can match an F1 driver on a reasonable sim, they can get within 5 seconds in the real thing... again given enough time to practice and get fit. They know what they need to do to get the car around the circuit quickly, now they just need to adapt to the extra sensations and physical demands on them, and avoid losing their nerve.

[Stan the Bat]

Wasn't there a video once of a fighter pilot being given a go in an F1 ?

Seem to remember he impressed a few people.

[kiseca]

Stan the Bat said:

Wasn't there a video once of a fighter pilot being given a go in an F1 ?

Seem to remember he impressed a few people.

I heard he was really flying.

[Stan the Bat]

kiseca said:

Stan the Bat said:

Wasn't there a video once of a fighter pilot being given a go in an F1 ?

Seem to remember he impressed a few people.

I heard he was really flying.

That really mach me laugh.

[skwdenyer]

Stan the Bat said:

Wasn't there a video once of a fighter pilot being given a go in an F1 ?

Seem to remember he impressed a few people.

This one? https://youtu.be/6fAnhf7XHnY

[kiseca]

Stan the Bat said:

kiseca said:

Stan the Bat said:

Wasn't there a video once of a fighter pilot being given a go in an F1 ?

Seem to remember he impressed a few people.

I heard he was really flying.

That really mach me laugh.

He had some experience burning rudder though, so that helped.

[Stan the Bat]

skwdenyer said:

Stan the Bat said:

Wasn't there a video once of a fighter pilot being given a go in an F1 ?

Seem to remember he impressed a few people.

This one? https://youtu.be/6fAnhf7XHnY

That's the one , Baggers did quite well.

[aston80]

HardtopManual said:

If Joe could knock off 6 seconds a lap, he'd get a seat in the best car and be a multiple WDC before you could explain the difference between multiplication by 0.9 and division by 0.9...

Btw +10% is not division by 0.9, it's multiplication by 1.1

60/0.9 = 66.67
60 x 1.1 = 66

[HardtopManual]

Now knock 10% off the non-F1 driver's time ;-)

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I did a gokart race in 95 at Silverstone and beat Coulthard, we both started on the back row. I won, he was second.

It was a fun day for the GP mechanics charity with Herbert, Hill, Stewart etc.

DC was not amused. He had the last laugh with his career.

[anonymous-user]

markcoznottz said:

It was 1992 iirc. Fast Lane magazine. And Mark Hales was a good semi pro driver as well. My mate went to the f1 experience at Mallory I was supposed to go but had a funeral that day. It was a 1988 tyrrell that was fitted with a f3000 engine, ie a rev limited dfv maybe 400 bhp ish. Plenty round Mallory. He enjoyed it needless to say was cheap as well, an opportunity missed I think.

Its amazing Mark managed to fit in a Leyton House, they are tiny cockpits. I bet he could hardly work the controls.

[456mgt]

This was my go in an F1 car back in 2017. Miles off the pace, but seems to partly answer the prevailing question of how well would a non experienced but enthusiastic driver perform.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...

[markcoznottz]

jsf said:

Steering is light in a current F1 car, weighted to the driver preference via the power steering. Brake pressure input is the most physical aspect ignoring G loads.

The older pre power steering cars are very physical by comparison, its why drivers like jones and Mansell did so well, you needed a lot of upper body strength.

Todays drivers are tiny by comparison.

Funny you should mention that, was listening to Patrick head podcast, he mentioned that Mansell had the fastest ability to put on and take off steering lock he had ever seen. In fact if you watch the Bbc footage of his ‘89 Hungarian race, arguably his best ever race, the lap before he overtakes senna, as he drives round the last corner into the straight, the camera goes right into his cockpit, and you can see his correction at the wheel, it’s so fast it’s almost blink and miss it, he was unusually physical at the wheel.


22:48 minutes


https://youtu.be/NPIbx0zMcDI

[aston80]

HardtopManual said:

Now knock 10% off the non-F1 driver's time ;-)

You were correct he should add, not subtract 10%. However, you said:

"the difference between multiplication by 0.9 and division by 0.9..."

Division by 0.9 is irrelevant:

subtract 10% you multiply by 0.9
add 10% you multiply by 1.1

[HardtopManual]

Depends whether you arrived at the F1 driver's time by knocking 10% off Joe's time, or arrived at Joe's time by adding 10% to the F1 driver's time. This is why the F1 rule is a 107% rule, not a 7% rule. It removes the ambiguity.