Origins of current F1 teams

Origins of current F1 teams

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Discussion

Piginapoke

1,842 posts

149 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
Crafty_ said:
Jonny_ said:
Would be interesting to cobble together a list of the teams that are now totally defunct, as opposed to taken over and renamed, e.g. Arrows and Caterham.
from a bit of googling to find out specifics:

Arrows became TWR Arrows, couldn't retain sponsors and closed.

Super Aguri then took over Leafield and pretty much suffered the same fate. Some German guy bought what was left of the team and was going to enter F1 under the Brabham name, never happened. Leafield is now home to a composites company.

After Bernie, Brabham ended up in the hands of a Swiss guy called Joachim Lüthi, he got nicked for tax fraud, the team was sold to Middlebridge Racing who lasted a couple of years before going to the wall, they couldn't pay back loans they had taken. The directors of the company provided the loads all got nicked by the SFO for taking bribes to loan more money to the team.

Fondmetal, a manufacturer of wheels simply couldn't make a team pay and shut up shop. The name briefly returned as the engine manufacturer for Minardi for a single season, but this was actually the Ford engine with a different badge.

March became Leyton House and then disappeared.

BMS Scuderia Italia were a brief F1 entrant, the team survives today running various GT3 cars.

Larrousse disappeared under a mountain of debt in the mid 90s.

Coloni sold out to Andrea Moda, who got expelled from the series in '92.

Forti also ran in to money problems in the mid 90s, a deal was done with an Italian, Irish based organisation called Shannon Racing. Disagreement then broke out about the deal, meantime Forti cars turned up to the British GP and did a few practice laps - they couldn't do any more because they owed Ford money and the engines were up on mileage. They travelled to the German GP but didn't even build up the cars which sat up on stands in the garage. Shannon racing eventually won in court regarding the deal, but the team had gone bankrupt by then.

Others that come to mind are Hesketh, AGS, Osella, Zakspeed, Simtek.
More recently, HRT, Virgin (Manor Racing) which was then renamed Marussia and limped along until 2015.
We could mention USF1 too, but given they never even got a car together I don't think they count!


Edit: Just thought of another 90s casuality - Pacific Grand Prix

Edited by Crafty_ on Monday 5th April 10:17
You'll need a long list for all the ex F1 teams....

TheDeuce

8,911 posts

30 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
Piginapoke said:
Crafty_ said:
Jonny_ said:
Would be interesting to cobble together a list of the teams that are now totally defunct, as opposed to taken over and renamed, e.g. Arrows and Caterham.
from a bit of googling to find out specifics:

Arrows became TWR Arrows, couldn't retain sponsors and closed.

Super Aguri then took over Leafield and pretty much suffered the same fate. Some German guy bought what was left of the team and was going to enter F1 under the Brabham name, never happened. Leafield is now home to a composites company.

After Bernie, Brabham ended up in the hands of a Swiss guy called Joachim Lüthi, he got nicked for tax fraud, the team was sold to Middlebridge Racing who lasted a couple of years before going to the wall, they couldn't pay back loans they had taken. The directors of the company provided the loads all got nicked by the SFO for taking bribes to loan more money to the team.

Fondmetal, a manufacturer of wheels simply couldn't make a team pay and shut up shop. The name briefly returned as the engine manufacturer for Minardi for a single season, but this was actually the Ford engine with a different badge.

March became Leyton House and then disappeared.

BMS Scuderia Italia were a brief F1 entrant, the team survives today running various GT3 cars.

Larrousse disappeared under a mountain of debt in the mid 90s.

Coloni sold out to Andrea Moda, who got expelled from the series in '92.

Forti also ran in to money problems in the mid 90s, a deal was done with an Italian, Irish based organisation called Shannon Racing. Disagreement then broke out about the deal, meantime Forti cars turned up to the British GP and did a few practice laps - they couldn't do any more because they owed Ford money and the engines were up on mileage. They travelled to the German GP but didn't even build up the cars which sat up on stands in the garage. Shannon racing eventually won in court regarding the deal, but the team had gone bankrupt by then.

Others that come to mind are Hesketh, AGS, Osella, Zakspeed, Simtek.
More recently, HRT, Virgin (Manor Racing) which was then renamed Marussia and limped along until 2015.
We could mention USF1 too, but given they never even got a car together I don't think they count!


Edit: Just thought of another 90s casuality - Pacific Grand Prix

Edited by Crafty_ on Monday 5th April 10:17
You'll need a long list for all the ex F1 teams....
BRM... Although their factory still exists and is still home to many functioning and racing F1 cars, so not a total loss smile

Crafty_

12,738 posts

164 months

Monday 5th April
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Another one, Lotus racing became Lotus, then Caterham before collapsing amid acrimony between Fernandes and staff who sued for wrongful dismissal.

TheDeuce

8,911 posts

30 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
Which was the last team to shut down and be disbanded? As opposed to simply changing hands and carrying on under a different name.

thegreenhell

8,394 posts

183 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Which was the last team to shut down and be disbanded? As opposed to simply changing hands and carrying on under a different name.
Manor folded before the 2017 season started. Prior to that was Caterham at the end of 2014, HRT at the end of 2012, Toyota in 2009 and Super Aguri in 2008.

Eric Mc

114,658 posts

229 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
What about Maserati, Simca, Talbot, Nardi, Connaught, Vanwall, Cooper, Matra, Bristol, Ferguson, Emeryson, etc

All those teams competed in F1 (and overall Grand Prix racing) - some with significant success too. All gone and no real presence in the current set up.

Crafty_

12,738 posts

164 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Embassy Hill / Ensign too I think Eric.


Eric Mc

114,658 posts

229 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Yep - them too. There have been lots of teams coming and going over the decades. What about Trojan - and of course, March, who actually had some success - and was the springboard for Max Moseley's involvement in the running of F1.

I was a fan of Ensign because Ensign gave Irish driver Derek Daly's break into F1 in 1978.

Did anyone mention Theodore?

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
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And Fittipaldi/Copersucar comes to mind, they merged with Wolf at a later stage, which in itself existed because of the split with Frank Williams as the were ISO-Williams in the early 70s and later on Wolf-Williams.
Fittipaldi simply ceased to exist, same as Shadow, the faltered after Don Nichols run out of money, IIRC.

And a lot of sponsoring or even some teams in the 70s and 80s was brought up through drug trafficking and money laundering

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
There was this Peter Gregg / Al Holbert story lately in motorsportmagazine, where the Whittington brothers were discharged with drug trafficking in a big way, and it was an open secret, those concerned knew it where the money came from

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
And another two teams, which came out of the blue and disappeared after a few seasons, both founded by the same man (Gerhard Schmid, founder / owner of alloywheel companies), even the designer at a later stage was the same man for both teams (Gustav Brunner, ever the journeyman)
ATS (first bought out Penske, later with own chassis, and I think the first visible carbon tub in f1)
Rial (no heritage and no future after the first respectable year)

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
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Did anyone mention Spirit?

At least they survived 3 seasons...

Eric Mc

114,658 posts

229 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Did Spirit morph into Toleman?

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Did Spirit morph into Toleman?
Nope, two different organisations...
Toleman was there earlier anyway

carl_w

6,627 posts

222 months

Tuesday 6th April
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Shadow

Eric Mc

114,658 posts

229 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
The first Toleman looked very similar to the 1983 Spirit Honda. That's why I was asking.

When was Toleman's first entry into F1?

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
The first Toleman looked very similar to the 1983 Spirit Honda. That's why I was asking.

When was Toleman's first entry into F1?
81

Dermot O'Logical

1,067 posts

93 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
1981, although it took most of the season before they managed to actually qualify - Derek Warwick at Las Vegas, I think. I can't remember whether Brian Henton qualified for that race as well.

Toleman seemed to want to do F1 the hard way - monoblock turbocharged Hart engines and Pirelli tyres when nobody else was using either, and so Toleman were a brand new team, developing new technology, in an era when turbo'd 1.5 litre engines were way more powerful than the alternative 3-litre NA option, but went spectacularly wrong at an astonishing rate. The only redeeming feature was that the car was designed by Rory Byrne, but the packaging of the whole thing meant that it was not a thing of beauty - one of the early incarnations was nicknamed "the Belgrano".


Eric Mc

114,658 posts

229 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Thanks.

I think what made me feel the two teams were connected was that both cars were spectacularly ugly.

sidewinder500

230 posts

58 months

Tuesday 6th April
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Thanks.

I think what made me feel the two teams were connected was that both cars were spectacularly ugly.
One or two connections exist, though.

Spirit was on its way downhill in 1984, as they've been kicked from Honda, so they bought in Hart engines, the same as Toleman had. As there was no points and no glory in 84, they faced a difficult 85, and after the first 3 races, where they were outqualified by non-turboed cars, with no real development to the car and draining money, they decided to accept the offer from Toleman to buy out their tyre contract, so that Toleman could participate from the 4th race on (and raised to pole fame with Fabi).
Spirit then closed shop on their F1 operation.