Roland Ratzenberger
Discussion
coppice said:
The reactions to that weekend depend on your age. It was shocking , of course , but if you had already been watching motorsport for 25 years it was more deja vu than anything else . As a teenager in 1968 , every month seemed to bring another tragedy - Clark , Spence , Scarfiotti and Schlesser and it made me realise , first hand , that the sport exacted a high price. But even then , it was far safer than in previous decades ,and some pre war races were carnage . I do wonder about the level of handwringing we now get - of course poor Jules Bianchi 's death at Suzuka was terrible , but the coverage in Autosport was crass overkill .
It's up to an individual to decide whether to carry on watching after the death of a high profile driver but I do wonder - was it really that much of a shock that people get killed sometimes?
I think it was a combination of things - the length of time since the last death in F1, that it was a double and nearly a triple fatality in one weekend, and the it was Senna. It's up to an individual to decide whether to carry on watching after the death of a high profile driver but I do wonder - was it really that much of a shock that people get killed sometimes?
Oh and "crass overkill" is an unfortunate choice of words.
Digger said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Digger said:
Moley RUFC said:
Digger said:
Thanks for the link 
I saw it in a book 
Will never forget a high speed head-on impact, had one to two seconds to react, straightened arms and pushed against the steering wheel as hard as could, on, off and on brakes at the same time, felt like slow motion, five seconds or more
Do think that many involved in big impacts will push against the steering wheel and stay like that
We all differ though so..................
To this day still ask myself how did the mind tell the foot to on off the brake pedal
I have only ever seen one fatality at a race meeting over 25 odd years, and that was at a big autograss meeting near where I lived in the 90's.
There were several reasons why it was harrowing, I raced for the same club, knew the man as a great racer, top level, did not know him personally but he had a wife and kids who also raced.
My Dad was in the police and knew I was there, they even had the car at the station afterwards for various reasons, so I knew what happened.
When you see the pumping of a heart, you see the family the paramedic, you see the incident it truly did leave me unable to watch any racing for about a year.
But eventually you reason, he died doing what he loved, he was leading, had a giant heart issue and died at the track so in many ways what better way to go!!
But you instantly think of family, process what you are seeing. And I lost all interest for a long time.
I can't imagine what that weekend in Imola must have been like for everyone, I think now it would be stopped hopefully.
There were several reasons why it was harrowing, I raced for the same club, knew the man as a great racer, top level, did not know him personally but he had a wife and kids who also raced.
My Dad was in the police and knew I was there, they even had the car at the station afterwards for various reasons, so I knew what happened.
When you see the pumping of a heart, you see the family the paramedic, you see the incident it truly did leave me unable to watch any racing for about a year.
But eventually you reason, he died doing what he loved, he was leading, had a giant heart issue and died at the track so in many ways what better way to go!!
But you instantly think of family, process what you are seeing. And I lost all interest for a long time.
I can't imagine what that weekend in Imola must have been like for everyone, I think now it would be stopped hopefully.
entropy said:
The sad thing about this is that RR was a pay driver and pay drivers are still looked down upon.
He was but not in the same way the likes of Mazipan are.IIRC, he was getting on, comparatively, age wise (was 33 when he got the drive) and his shot at F1 was slipping by. Simtec offered him a five race seat the fee for which he acquired through hustling for sponsors and what today would be called crowdfunding.
coppice said:
The reactions to that weekend depend on your age. It was shocking , of course , but if you had already been watching motorsport for 25 years it was more deja vu than anything else . As a teenager in 1968 , every month seemed to bring another tragedy - Clark , Spence , Scarfiotti and Schlesser and it made me realise , first hand , that the sport exacted a high price. But even then , it was far safer than in previous decades ,and some pre war races were carnage . I do wonder about the level of handwringing we now get - of course poor Jules Bianchi 's death at Suzuka was terrible , but the coverage in Autosport was crass overkill .
It's up to an individual to decide whether to carry on watching after the death of a high profile driver but I do wonder - was it really that much of a shock that people get killed sometimes?
I started watching F1 back in 1966. Yet that weekend got to me, almost as much as did Clark's death, and probably for similar reasons.It's up to an individual to decide whether to carry on watching after the death of a high profile driver but I do wonder - was it really that much of a shock that people get killed sometimes?
There was something about the two that made you think they were untouchable. Indeed, back in the McLaren days, Senna said something about how his god was with him and protecting him. The thing was, he believed he was untouchable as well. If he could be killed, so could anyone.
Also, there hadn't been one for a dozen years, and de Angelis' was down to the fact that the same level of safety was not there for testing, or that's what we were told.
There were articles in various mags around that time about how little pasive safety had been improved since Villeneuve, brought on, I think, by the submission of warnings and suggestions for improvement to the FIA by safety experts. Some of these were used, belatedly of course, by Mosley. The deaths were probably preventable given the level of expertise and knowledge at the time.
For me, I think the whole weekend built up to the death of Senna.
Derek Smith said:
Also, there hadn't been one for a dozen years, and de Angelis' was down to the fact that the same level of safety was not there for testing, or that's what we were told.
I remember coming across a quote from I think from Eddie Cheever that de Angelis' accident was like Patrick Depailler all over again (died in a testing accident in the early 1980s). The standards in safety for testing compared to races were poor as were the inadequate amount of marshals.entropy said:
Still wasn't there on merit.
Classy. Neither was half the grid in those days. Neither are two thirds of the grid now. They bring funding. It shouldn’t diminish the memory of an f1 driver because that’s how it’s always been and always will be.
He made it to f1. f
king good on him. FNG said:
Classy.
Neither was half the grid in those days. Neither are two thirds of the grid now. They bring funding. It shouldn’t diminish the memory of an f1 driver because that’s how it’s always been and always will be.
He made it to f1. fking good on him.
That's my point. What legacy does he get?Neither was half the grid in those days. Neither are two thirds of the grid now. They bring funding. It shouldn’t diminish the memory of an f1 driver because that’s how it’s always been and always will be.
He made it to f1. f
king good on him. People say 'never forget Roland' but the drivers who bring funding generally and continually get a bashing.
FNG said:
entropy said:
Still wasn't there on merit.
Classy. Neither was half the grid in those days. Neither are two thirds of the grid now. They bring funding. It shouldn’t diminish the memory of an f1 driver because that’s how it’s always been and always will be.
He made it to f1. f
king good on him. StevieBee said:
entropy said:
The sad thing about this is that RR was a pay driver and pay drivers are still looked down upon.
He was but not in the same way the likes of Mazipan are.IIRC, he was getting on, comparatively, age wise (was 33 when he got the drive) and his shot at F1 was slipping by. Simtec offered him a five race seat the fee for which he acquired through hustling for sponsors and what today would be called crowdfunding.
I think the general view is that, back in those days, you had pay drivers in Minardis and Fortis and Simteks - no-hoper cars. Also, the crucial thing was you never felt like a deserved driver was elbowed out to accommodate these pay drivers
Now, when race-winner Perez is ejected and Lance stays, when Hulkenburg can’t get a seat, when Williams have Roy Nissany driving in free practice, it feels like this seat-buying is creeping up the grid and genuinely good drivers are missing out.
As for Roland, the brutal truth was that he was a pay driver - he had to buy his seat. But he certainly paid his dues beforehand in other formulae and, regardless of his ‘status’, he was a good driver who certainly wasn’t out of place in the sport.
Also while it is irrelevant to the driver, the 1994 Simtek was a fantastic looking car in my opinion, one of the best of all time. There were two new teams that year, Simtek and Pacific. The Pacific had a big nose extension, very odd looking. It was a time when each car looked different and unencumbered with appendages and winglets.
The 1991 Jordan and the Ferarri 641 also were wonderful.
Regarding Barichellos crash, there were differing opinions on what to do with your hands in an accident at the time. Many drivers felt an impact with the barriers would tug the steering wheel so hard that if you had even a normal grip on the wheel you were likely to break your hands or wrists. Other drivers felt that letting go of the wheel meant that it was likely an arm could flail out of the cockpit in an accident, resulting in horrific injuries. Damon Hill spoke about it in his book he released in 96. I think we are certainly grateful for the increases in safety since then. The drivers neck and shoulders were awfully exposed.
Roland was a smiling, happy, kind man, well loved by all who met him. I wish his family peace this week.
The 1991 Jordan and the Ferarri 641 also were wonderful.
Regarding Barichellos crash, there were differing opinions on what to do with your hands in an accident at the time. Many drivers felt an impact with the barriers would tug the steering wheel so hard that if you had even a normal grip on the wheel you were likely to break your hands or wrists. Other drivers felt that letting go of the wheel meant that it was likely an arm could flail out of the cockpit in an accident, resulting in horrific injuries. Damon Hill spoke about it in his book he released in 96. I think we are certainly grateful for the increases in safety since then. The drivers neck and shoulders were awfully exposed.
Roland was a smiling, happy, kind man, well loved by all who met him. I wish his family peace this week.
The whole pay thing is a nonsense and irrelevant - all motor sport is expensive , F1 terrifyingly so , and I don't look down on any driver because he paid for a drive , or somebody else other than the team did . Presumably we don't sneer at drivers funded by Marlboro or JPS but only those with rich families or patrons? And if they get a drive but drivers with chips on both shoulders (Tommy Byrne ) doesn't , bloody good luck to them . From the dawn of motor sport time, money helps - from Richard Seaman (family money ), Stirling Moss (ditto ) and Woolf Barnato (ditto ) via Ronnie Peterson (Count Zanon ) to Lance Stroll - and if they can drive , who cares who pays the bills?
Ratzenberger was a likeable , decent guy who worked his arse off to get into F1 and was quick enough to belong . . Like some of the FF1600 cohort he raced with , he made it , Many never even tried Bloody good for him say I
Ratzenberger was a likeable , decent guy who worked his arse off to get into F1 and was quick enough to belong . . Like some of the FF1600 cohort he raced with , he made it , Many never even tried Bloody good for him say I
coppice said:
Ratzenberger was a likeable , decent guy who worked his arse off to get into F1 and was quick enough to belong . . Like some of the FF1600 cohort he raced with , he made it , Many never even tried Bloody good for him say I
Ratzenberger certainly deserved a shot. As you say, he worked his arse off and whilst the results weren't there in the lower formulae, attitude and dedication was and sometimes this is enough. He'd bagged the Jordan drive the same year but his sponsor pulled out at the 11th hour. Pay drivers have been a thing for ever in F1. What's happening today though is that some drivers are being fast-tracked through the system regardless of on-track performance as part of some marketing strategy or to appease the desires of ambitious fathers. This devalues F2, F3 and ultimately, F1 which positions itself as the pinnacle of motor sporting excellence; a claim of dubious relevance when you look as some drivers that aren't racing in favour of some who are that have no right to be so based upon their quality as a racing driver.
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