Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes

Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes

Author
Discussion

ajprice

20,552 posts

162 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
Mercedes and Red Bull are a step ahead of the others, McLaren and Ferrari are closing, but not there yet. Bottas and Perez are there to be P3 and P4 positions, P1 or P2 when something happens to Max or Lewis. It's a new car and a new team to Perez this year, so a few races to settle in is understandable. Bottas has been there since 2017, early season every time he talks himself up with the 'fk you', the v2.0, 3.0 etc, the I've got a beard now so that makes me better, then it's downhill. With the other teams being closer this year, it's showing him up this time.

If he's out they won't want him to go to a non Mercedes team and then McLaren and Aston might be too close to the main team to send him there.

It's a Williams swap with Russell for 2022 for me, or Formula E/rallying/rallycross/indycar and someone new at Williams with Latifi. I'm not sure they would do the switch mid season, if they do, the sooner the better to rescue their chances now that Perez seems to be getting settled and should only get better now he's got the win.

thegreenhell

8,672 posts

185 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
ajprice said:
If he's out they won't want him to go to a non Mercedes team and then McLaren and Aston might be too close to the main team to send him there.
The only way Mercedes can influence which team he drives for next year is to keep him signed up as a Mercedes driver. Otherwise he's a free agent at the end of the year and can go anywhere that will have him, whether Mercedes like it or not.

glazbagun

11,706 posts

163 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
kiseca said:
Two weeks ago on PH Perez was out of favour too, with popular opinion being he wasn't doing enough to keep his seat next year. Opinion has swung completely for both drivers over the course of a single race. Now all of a sudden he's a target Bottas can't reach. If in the next race Bottas is right on Lewis's tail and Perez drops it again, the opinion pendulum will swing again.

Perez can come through a field but that's only a skill needed when something other than an underperforming car puts you at the back.

Bottas is a great qualifier, arguably more successful at qualifying than Perez, which means he shouldn't often need to push a fast car through the field.
yes Bottas had a poor Baku and was taken out by a Williams earlier, but outperformed Lewis at Monaco before losing a podium in the pitlane.

HustleRussell

19,398 posts

126 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
ajprice said:
Bottas has been there since 2017, early season every time he talks himself up with the 'fk you', the v2.0, 3.0 etc, the I've got a beard now so that makes me better, then it's downhill.
I don’t think that’s really fair. Journalists ask all the drivers what their aspirations are, and they all answer with something along the lines of “improving all the time, & better than in the past”. He said Valterri 2.0 ONCE and it has been continuously parodied by all. The beard and the porridge were off the cuff and flippant comments for levity. He said them once. This phenomenon is due to Twitter and meme culture.

Petrus1983

4,885 posts

128 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
ajprice said:
If he's out they won't want him to go to a non Mercedes team and then McLaren and Aston might be too close to the main team to send him there.
The only way Mercedes can influence which team he drives for next year is to keep him signed up as a Mercedes driver. Otherwise he's a free agent at the end of the year and can go anywhere that will have him, whether Mercedes like it or not.
I genuinely doubt he has that much inside knowledge- far less than one of the leading technical guys. If there’s a feeling in the team he isn’t staying, he’ll know even less.

Gad-Westy

11,534 posts

179 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
M5-911 said:
Once Bottas is back on European tracks, everything should be better hopefully. Only thing is that the Redbull is just a bit to rapid for Hamilton as well. It was fascinating to watch Hamilton trying to keep up with the Redbull this weekend.
What am I missing here? 4 out of 6 races this season have been in Europe. 5 if you count Azerbaijan.

Exige77

6,231 posts

157 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
M5-911 said:
Once Bottas is back on European tracks, everything should be better hopefully. Only thing is that the Redbull is just a bit to rapid for Hamilton as well. It was fascinating to watch Hamilton trying to keep up with the Redbull this weekend.
What am I missing here? 4 out of 6 races this season have been in Europe. 5 if you count Azerbaijan.
I think he means a style of tracks with faster corners that suit the Mercedes better.

TheDeuce

9,532 posts

32 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
Gad-Westy said:
M5-911 said:
Once Bottas is back on European tracks, everything should be better hopefully. Only thing is that the Redbull is just a bit to rapid for Hamilton as well. It was fascinating to watch Hamilton trying to keep up with the Redbull this weekend.
What am I missing here? 4 out of 6 races this season have been in Europe. 5 if you count Azerbaijan.
I think he means a style of tracks with faster corners that suit the Mercedes better.
Paul Ricard should suit them well - it'll be mildly interesting to see how it plays out.

It will also be the only interesting thing, as it's Paul Ricard.

Krikkit

21,358 posts

147 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
ajprice said:
If he's out they won't want him to go to a non Mercedes team and then McLaren and Aston might be too close to the main team to send him there.
The only way Mercedes can influence which team he drives for next year is to keep him signed up as a Mercedes driver. Otherwise he's a free agent at the end of the year and can go anywhere that will have him, whether Mercedes like it or not.
Unless they've already put a clause in his contract about where he can go...

StevieBee

9,801 posts

221 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
kiseca said:
Two weeks ago on PH Perez was out of favour too, with popular opinion being he wasn't doing enough to keep his seat next year. Opinion has swung completely for both drivers over the course of a single race. Now all of a sudden he's a target Bottas can't reach. If in the next race Bottas is right on Lewis's tail and Perez drops it again, the opinion pendulum will swing again.
Yep. It's exactly this sort of thing that keeps these sorts of threads bubbling away for eons.

Makes for interesting discussion but really, none of us have any inkling of what's being thought or done behind the scenes.

thegreenhell

8,672 posts

185 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
thegreenhell said:
ajprice said:
If he's out they won't want him to go to a non Mercedes team and then McLaren and Aston might be too close to the main team to send him there.
The only way Mercedes can influence which team he drives for next year is to keep him signed up as a Mercedes driver. Otherwise he's a free agent at the end of the year and can go anywhere that will have him, whether Mercedes like it or not.
Unless they've already put a clause in his contract about where he can go...
How could that possibly work? He's either under contract or he isn't, and if he isn't then they can have no influence over where he chooses to work.

honda_exige

2,717 posts

172 months

Monday 7th June
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Krikkit said:
thegreenhell said:
ajprice said:
If he's out they won't want him to go to a non Mercedes team and then McLaren and Aston might be too close to the main team to send him there.
The only way Mercedes can influence which team he drives for next year is to keep him signed up as a Mercedes driver. Otherwise he's a free agent at the end of the year and can go anywhere that will have him, whether Mercedes like it or not.
Unless they've already put a clause in his contract about where he can go...
How could that possibly work? He's either under contract or he isn't, and if he isn't then they can have no influence over where he chooses to work.
Indeed, I think all (Euro) pro sports follow the Bosman ruling for football and that kind of thing has never happened in Football so I assume it can't. I bet Real Madrid would love to make it impossible for a player to join Barca on a free.

Jasandjules

66,123 posts

195 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
How could that possibly work? He's either under contract or he isn't, and if he isn't then they can have no influence over where he chooses to work.
Post Termination Restrictive Covenants. The same that can apply to any job......... Is what I presume is being referred to...

honda_exige

2,717 posts

172 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
Post Termination Restrictive Covenants. The same that can apply to any job......... Is what I presume is being referred to...
They are very hard to uphold in court. Attempted in my field a lot, most go to court and the covenant is quashed by a judge as being an unfair restriction of trade. Again, if it was possible Football would already have tried it.

Jasandjules

66,123 posts

195 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
honda_exige said:
Jasandjules said:
Post Termination Restrictive Covenants. The same that can apply to any job......... Is what I presume is being referred to...
They are very hard to uphold in court. Attempted in my field a lot, most go to court and the covenant is quashed by a judge as being an unfair restriction of trade. Again, if it was possible Football would already have tried it.
If they are reasonable and protect legitimate business interests they can be enforced. And you will be aware that many F1 teams have people who take "a year out" etc before moving to another team.

Muzzer79

4,844 posts

153 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
honda_exige said:
Jasandjules said:
Post Termination Restrictive Covenants. The same that can apply to any job......... Is what I presume is being referred to...
They are very hard to uphold in court. Attempted in my field a lot, most go to court and the covenant is quashed by a judge as being an unfair restriction of trade. Again, if it was possible Football would already have tried it.
If they are reasonable and protect legitimate business interests they can be enforced. And you will be aware that many F1 teams have people who take "a year out" etc before moving to another team.
I can imagine them being applicable to an engineer, or similar role that carries technical knowledge.

But a driver? Unless said driver was being paid for the clause, I would imagine he would argue it would be restriction of ability to earn income?

thegreenhell

8,672 posts

185 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
If they are reasonable and protect legitimate business interests they can be enforced. And you will be aware that many F1 teams have people who take "a year out" etc before moving to another team.
But in that case those people were full time employees who continue to be paid by the original employer during their period of gardening leave. F1 drivers aren't full time employees in the same way, and I doubt anyone would sign a fixed term contract which attempted to restrict their future employment after the end of that term.

kiseca

9,073 posts

185 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Jasandjules said:
honda_exige said:
Jasandjules said:
Post Termination Restrictive Covenants. The same that can apply to any job......... Is what I presume is being referred to...
They are very hard to uphold in court. Attempted in my field a lot, most go to court and the covenant is quashed by a judge as being an unfair restriction of trade. Again, if it was possible Football would already have tried it.
If they are reasonable and protect legitimate business interests they can be enforced. And you will be aware that many F1 teams have people who take "a year out" etc before moving to another team.
I can imagine them being applicable to an engineer, or similar role that carries technical knowledge.

But a driver? Unless said driver was being paid for the clause, I would imagine he would argue it would be restriction of ability to earn income?
There's a difference between paid gardening leave and restricting someone from taking employment. A formula 1 driver doesn't have that many driving options if they want to stay in formula 1. Regardless of the business interests to be protected, a judge will nearly always rule in favour of the worker if the contract attempts to force them into a year of unemployment in a role they are specialised in. i.e. if Mercedes want Bottas to take gardening leave, they'd have to pay him, and that payment would have to be what he could expect to earn if he was driving.


Gad-Westy

11,534 posts

179 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Is there any precedent of a driver being unable to drive for another time once out of contract? I can't think of any but I'm not trying to be clever, maybe it's happened.

honda_exige

2,717 posts

172 months

Tuesday 8th June
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
Is there any precedent of a driver being unable to drive for another time once out of contract? I can't think of any but I'm not trying to be clever, maybe it's happened.
Nope, no precedent in any sport that I'm aware of.

Closest was Kimi and Ferrari but he was in contract and they paid him to not race in F1.