Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes

Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes

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Discussion

SturdyHSV

8,237 posts

135 months

Thursday 17th June
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kiseca said:
If you and Sparta listened to Daniel this year then Sparta would already know the answer to his question and you'd know that Daniel has repeatedly told the world's media this year that it's not the car it's him.
No indeed, it's been refreshing to see a slightly more serious side.

I don't know why, mostly because of how Drive to Survive no doubt twisted it, but he's just come across as that sort of annoying OTT clown character that typically I find would be a ballache to be around and for whatever reason his arrogance or perhaps rather his delivery of it just annoys me hehe

(don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the drivers have to be 'arrogant' in terms of thinking they're the best, it's part of the mentality that gets them to the top)

kiseca

9,276 posts

187 months

Thursday 17th June
quotequote all
SturdyHSV said:
kiseca said:
If you and Sparta listened to Daniel this year then Sparta would already know the answer to his question and you'd know that Daniel has repeatedly told the world's media this year that it's not the car it's him.
No indeed, it's been refreshing to see a slightly more serious side.

I don't know why, mostly because of how Drive to Survive no doubt twisted it, but he's just come across as that sort of annoying OTT clown character that typically I find would be a ballache to be around and for whatever reason his arrogance or perhaps rather his delivery of it just annoys me hehe

(don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the drivers have to be 'arrogant' in terms of thinking they're the best, it's part of the mentality that gets them to the top)
I've enjoyed him on Drive to Survive, to me he just comes across as laid back and a joker, but yes, I've heard a lot of posters saying that they dislike the Daniel that they see there, so I completely understand your viewpoint. I'm pretty sure, at least if PH is representative, that on balance he's done his reputation more harm than good on the program.

sparta6

2,704 posts

68 months

Friday 18th June
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ajprice said:
TheDeuce said:
ajprice said:
Helmut Marko poking at the Bottas/Russell switch for gits and shiggles https://www.essentiallysports.com/helmut-marko-tro...
Say something interesting, gets articles written that contain the words "red bull", job done!

Doesn't mean he actually cares or even really has an opinion.
Yeah, but at least we can definitely rule out Red Bull and Alpha Tauri for Bottas in 2022 hehe
hehe

Back to Williams

wiliferus

3,788 posts

166 months

Sunday 20th June
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Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.

MB140

2,901 posts

71 months

Sunday 20th June
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wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.

Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback

I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.

Muzzer79

5,050 posts

155 months

Sunday 20th June
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wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.

What exactly are you expecting?

wiliferus

3,788 posts

166 months

Sunday 20th June
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Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.

What exactly are you expecting?
Maybe keep up with the other front runners… keep a challenger behind him for more than 2 corners? He’s a racer! He’s completely lost his fight. Maybe knowing he’s going has killed his spirit. But today he just looked flat as a flat thing.

Muzzer79

5,050 posts

155 months

Sunday 20th June
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wiliferus said:
Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.

What exactly are you expecting?
Maybe keep up with the other front runners… keep a challenger behind him for more than 2 corners? He’s a racer! He’s completely lost his fight. Maybe knowing he’s going has killed his spirit. But today he just looked flat as a flat thing.
Keep up? He was 14 seconds behind the winner, who had a better strategy. confused

Hamilton couldn’t keep his rival behind, how is Bottas supposed to keep Perez behind when he has a big tyre advantage?

Honestly, half the people on here seem to think that unless he performs like Fangio’s better-driving love child then he should be in banger racing……


RunEveryInchOfTheWorld

2,127 posts

17 months

Sunday 20th June
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wiliferus said:
Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.

What exactly are you expecting?
Maybe keep up with the other front runners… keep a challenger behind him for more than 2 corners? He’s a racer! He’s completely lost his fight. Maybe knowing he’s going has killed his spirit. But today he just looked flat as a flat thing.
TBF Lewis, didn't put up much of a fight either. Rosberg also noticed and said so afterwards.

honda_exige

2,988 posts

174 months

Sunday 20th June
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MB140 said:
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.

Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback

I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
His error turned it into a two stop race. It was on for a one stop otherwise. To then come on the radio all sweary blaming the team when really it was his fault probably isn't going to go down well with Toto.

g4ry13

11,667 posts

223 months

Sunday 20th June
quotequote all
wiliferus said:
Muzzer79 said:
wiliferus said:
Another completely unremarkable performance from VB. Doesn’t attack, can’t defend. Yes, the strategy was wrong, but he literally did nothing of note.
In a 90 minute Grand Prix, he legitimately finished 12 seconds behind his 7 x WDC team mate.

What exactly are you expecting?
Maybe keep up with the other front runners… keep a challenger behind him for more than 2 corners? He’s a racer! He’s completely lost his fight. Maybe knowing he’s going has killed his spirit. But today he just looked flat as a flat thing.
I'm normally a critic of Bottas but in fairness, Max breezed past 7x WDC Lewis totally uncontested without even a fight.

95 fiesta si

1,409 posts

120 months

Sunday 20th June
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I actually dont think it was that bad a race for VB today, seen plenty worse from him.

Max was gonna pass them whatever they did. Red Bull picked the best strategy today, it's hard to keep a talent like Max behind in a fast Redbull on newer tyres when he was taking 1-2 seconds a lap from them and clearly the Mercs were struggling on that old set.


wiliferus

3,788 posts

166 months

Sunday 20th June
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Maybe I’m being overly harsh. It seems so. I hope he can find a way to enjoy the rest of the season as he’s not a happy man at the moment.

95 fiesta si

1,409 posts

120 months

Sunday 20th June
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I genuinely feel sorry for VB, there's nothing not to like about him, but he just can't compete consistently like Lewis but he shows moments of brilliance where he looks untouchable but they are so far and few between. Must be frustrating to hear all the trash talk in the press and being beaten by Lewis week in and week out, how much does that dent your confidence ?

This year even more pressure on VB as they are currently 2nd in constructors and let's face it, that's not cause of Lewis efforts.

Defo worthy of a a seat in F1, but should that be in the best modern day F1 car.....just cant see it.


paulw123

1,703 posts

158 months

Sunday 20th June
quotequote all
honda_exige said:
MB140 said:
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.

Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback

I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
His error turned it into a two stop race. It was on for a one stop otherwise. To then come on the radio all sweary blaming the team when really it was his fault probably isn't going to go down well with Toto.
His error also caused max to pit early, get the undercut and pass Lewis. Poor ‘woe is me’ Bottas again. Let’s face it If anyone out of the two Merc drivers Is going to make a slower car win it’s not going to be Bottas,

oyster

10,468 posts

216 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
paulw123 said:
honda_exige said:
MB140 said:
In fairness he was saying it’s a 2 stop race. The team chose to ignore his advice and keep him out. The Merc is no longer so superior that they can defend on half knackered tyres with a more powerful engine mode.

Although botas should have just parked it in the middle of the corner once he knew he was going deep to prevent the cutback

I don’t think he will be in the Merc next season. Russell is the future for Merc once Hamilton finishes so your better off getting him in the seat sooner.
His error turned it into a two stop race. It was on for a one stop otherwise. To then come on the radio all sweary blaming the team when really it was his fault probably isn't going to go down well with Toto.
His error also caused max to pit early, get the undercut and pass Lewis. Poor ‘woe is me’ Bottas again. Let’s face it If anyone out of the two Merc drivers Is going to make a slower car win it’s not going to be Bottas,
Which error are you referring to?

honda_exige

2,988 posts

174 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
oyster said:
Which error are you referring to?
Just before the 1st round of pitstops Bottas went off and flatspotted his tyres causing heavy vibrations.

Jake899

Original Poster:

101 posts

12 months

Monday 21st June
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Another interesting race, great for the neutral and great for the excitement of Formula 1.
It's easy to find faults if you are looking for them. But I have a couple of issues with Bottas' performance this weekend.
The biggest is this: Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport. After Mercedes told Lewis this ones on us, he didn't say a word more, he accepted that. There's no benefit to how Valtteri threw his toys out the cockpit and chewed the team out on air. The way that race went for him was as much his fault as anyone else's and he looks like a fool when he swears and blames everyone else.

Now, to see things from Vatteris objective, it's no doubt that Red Bull were the better package this weekend. They did a great job. As things worked out, they were going to overtake the Mercedes, it was just a question of when. Valtteri finished fourth, a respectable position, and was not left behind in the race.

I just get the feeling that second and fourth should be viewed as a low point by the Mercedes team, whereas it might well have been one of Valtters better races this year. And I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.

Another weekend where Bottas' fortunes at Merceded drop.

Smollet

6,565 posts

158 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Jake899 said:
Another interesting race, great for the neutral and great for the excitement of Formula 1.
It's easy to find faults if you are looking for them. But I have a couple of issues with Bottas' performance this weekend.
The biggest is this: Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport. After Mercedes told Lewis this ones on us, he didn't say a word more, he accepted that. There's no benefit to how Valtteri threw his toys out the cockpit and chewed the team out on air. The way that race went for him was as much his fault as anyone else's and he looks like a fool when he swears and blames everyone else.

Now, to see things from Vatteris objective, it's no doubt that Red Bull were the better package this weekend. They did a great job. As things worked out, they were going to overtake the Mercedes, it was just a question of when. Valtteri finished fourth, a respectable position, and was not left behind in the race.

I just get the feeling that second and fourth should be viewed as a low point by the Mercedes team, whereas it might well have been one of Valtters better races this year. And I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.

Another weekend where Bottas' fortunes at Merceded drop.
Good post

Muzzer79

5,050 posts

155 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
Jake899 said:
Perez finished ahead of him. Yes Max also beat his rival, but looking at Valtteri specifically, his job is to finish ahead of Checo and take points off Max whenever possible. He failed in that this weekend, for whatever reason.
Hamilton's job is to finish ahead of Max. He couldn't achieve that on a similar strategy to Bottas, so why should Bottas be able to beat Perez on an inferior strategy?

Jake899 said:
Second, his race craft. The manner in which the Red Bulls breezed past him was frankly, embarrassing. Not only did he not defend at all he fell off the track the second Max got within striking distance. Max lost absolutely zero time behind him. Even 5 seconds resistance, just a lap or two, anything, could have made the difference between Max having the time to catch Lewis. Fighting behind a car is the best way to ruin your tires and rhythm. I think that was really difficult to excuse from Valtteri.
I don't recall Verstappen having any issue getting past Hamilton on his worn tyres either.

What are either Mercedes drivers supposed to do? If your tyres are shot, they're shot.

Jake899 said:
Lastly, the whining on the radio. It's a team sport.
If they didn't allow whining on the radio, they wouldn't have any drivers left.

Jake899 said:
I continue to maintain, that his standard of racing just isn't good enough for the seat he's in.
Another one expecting the driver to turn water into wine......