Michael Masi should be replaced

Michael Masi should be replaced

Author
Discussion

Schermerhorn

4,170 posts

161 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
If it was Bernie in charge he would have gotten a few helicopters and dried off Eau Rouge and the Kemmel straight biggrin

rscott

12,763 posts

163 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
The OP weakens his argument when he blames the race director for giving out too many they're issued by the stewards not Masi.

Stedman

6,816 posts

164 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
rscott said:
The OP weakens his argument when he blames the race director for giving out too many they're issued by the stewards not Masi.
And the CV stuff.

Bo_apex

1,531 posts

190 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Bo_apex said:
Those are images of when Belgium was experiencing flooding a few weeks ago.

The track was bad yesterday but not THAT bad.
Exactly. It wasn't that bad.

1998 was extremely wet at Spa with poor visibility.
Great race !


Sandpit Steve

4,898 posts

46 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
Bo_apex said:
Exactly. It wasn't that bad.

1998 was extremely wet at Spa with poor visibility.
Great race !
Great race if your name is Eddie Jordan.

Plenty of others none too happy with how things played out on that day, starting with Michael Schumacher.

Lowlights of that race, for anyone who’s forgotten. https://youtube.com/watch?v=o02s_g5AUUE

cc3

Original Poster:

839 posts

88 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
So at start of August Masi says Spa is safe. But clearly if it rains he doesn’t feel it is safe

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.motorlat.com/no...

sandman77

1,884 posts

110 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
The only thing that went wrong yesterday was the piss poor communication from the FIA to the teams, the TV crews and the fans. Nobody knowing if the race had started or how many laps were remaining was a major balls up that could easily have been avoided.
Running the 2 laps behind the safety car was purely a commercial decision but is far bigger than just about refunding the attending fans. The circuit itself have paid lots of money to host a race and dozens of tv stations around the world have paid even more to broadcast a race. The ticket money is only a small slice of the cake. Then there is also the uncertainty of COVID. Who knows what restrictions could be introduced around the world that may prevent races from going ahead so it is important to get enough races under the belt so we can at least have a season and award a champion at the end. We, as fans, obviously hated the way it was handled but if you step back and look at the bigger picture it was definitely the right decision in the end.
As far as I am concerned the only balls up with the lack of real time information.

595Heaven

1,611 posts

50 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
cc3 said:
So at start of August Masi says Spa is safe. But clearly if it rains he doesn’t feel it is safe

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.motorlat.com/no...
You seem to be trying to make a pointless argument.

How would you have played it yesterday?

rscott

12,763 posts

163 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
Stedman said:
rscott said:
The OP weakens his argument when he blames the race director for giving out too many they're issued by the stewards not Masi.
And the CV stuff.
I missed that gem. Masi was assistant race director in Australian Super Touring, Rally Australia, then moved up to FIA F2/F3 and finally as Charlie's deputy.
Seems like the right sort of CV for the job to me.

cc3

Original Poster:

839 posts

88 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
This article gives some more background on the Spa circuit which was probably weighing on his mind in deciding not to race. Guess he didn’t want to be proved wrong in saying Spa was safe a couple of weeks earlier then having a big crash.

Maybe the F1 safety committee of which he is a member should have implemented more safety measures at the track

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/jalopnik.com/no-tra...

Boom78

408 posts

20 months

Monday 30th August
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thegreenhell said:
cc3 said:
We have seen far too many red flags this season, far too many petty penalties and to top it all the Spa Grand Prix has to be the worst ‘race’ in living memory. We saw evidence of confusion, poor decision making and a two lap ‘race’ just so that F1 didn’t have to refund fans etc.
As I said in the main GP thread, which of these previous red flags from the past 12 months do you think was unnecessary?

Mugello start line multi-car pileup?
Grosjean fireball?
Russell and Bottas crash and debris at Imola?
Max's tyre blowout at Baku?
Max's 7000G crash at Silverstone?
Hungary turn 1 multi-car crash?

cc3 said:
Just looked at his cv no experience in racing seems to come from a marketing background.
confused
Masi began his career in motor racing volunteering for Super Touring teams while still at school. He worked as deputy race director in the Supercars touring car series and at Rally Australia. In 2018 he was appointed by the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile as the Formula Two and Formula Three deputy race director and was appointed deputy to F1 race director Charlie Whiting. - From Wiki.
Rule 1 of PH….logic and common sense is not tolerated, we prefer ‘catty’ polarised views on everything, apportioning blame and making a massive mole hill

Ps.. you’re spot on smile

Petrus1983

5,713 posts

134 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
cc3 said:
Mugello start line multi-car pileup?
Grosjean fireball?
Russell and Bottas crash and debris at Imola?
Max's tyre blowout at Baku?
Max's 7000G crash at Silverstone?
Hungary turn 1 multi-car crash?
These are all yellows. In most cases not waved either.

StevieBee

10,378 posts

227 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
MitchT said:
Yesterday's farce was all about money.
If that were true, they'd have run the full race regardless - as they did in Fiji in '76, a decision that was certainly about the money.

Refunds to spectators are the responsibility of the promotor, not F1 or the FIA. The promotor may seek compensation from either of these though I would imagine there's clauses that exclude natural events for the grounds of rebate against which insurance would kick in.

Yesterday was about keeping everyone safe.

As to the call for Masi to go, I would say that F1 is currently being governed and run with levels of efficiency, transparency and quality never seen before. I'm sure that if they could go back, a few things would have been done differently but I cannot recall a race in F1's history that has been affected so badly by the weather.

Carlososos

537 posts

68 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
It’s too soon to replace him I think. Everyone deserves to make mistakes and this has been a big one. Everyone would feel better if he simply said

“yes there are massive financial benefits to us running those two laps but we didn’t run them for that reason we wanted to see if we could get a show going. I for one agree the fans have lost out and as a whole the f1 circus should go out of our way to compensate or refund the paying fans. I will be pushing for that but frankly it’s out of my hands. Sorry”

I think that would satisfy most people and I think he should take the lead as at the moment he is the top level visible face of f1(apart from Dom and brawn but can’t remember seeing them for a while). The only people left with a bad taste then are the folk who think they should of just let them race.

craigjm

13,833 posts

172 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
If it was Bernie in charge he would have gotten a few helicopters and dried off Eau Rouge and the Kemmel straight biggrin
Bernie would have just ensured there were enough laps on the first outing to call it a race and then called it a day. I feel sorry for the spectators who travelled yesterday and I have some sympathy that they should get their money back but surely weather is an act of god unlike the tyre debacle in the US.

cc3

Original Poster:

839 posts

88 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
If that were true, they'd have run the full race regardless - as they did in Fiji in '76, a decision that was certainly about the money.

Refunds to spectators are the responsibility of the promotor, not F1 or the FIA. The promotor may seek compensation from either of these though I would imagine there's clauses that exclude natural events for the grounds of rebate against which insurance would kick in.

Yesterday was about keeping everyone safe.

As to the call for Masi to go, I would say that F1 is currently being governed and run with levels of efficiency, transparency and quality never seen before. I'm sure that if they could go back, a few things would have been done differently but I cannot recall a race in F1's history that has been affected so badly by the weather.
So precedent now set if it rains for the afternoon they dont race? Just the two laps behind safety car and half points. As Brundle says racing is dangerous and they can move the loud peddle up as well as down. Are we in an era now where little overtaking in the dry as they can’t follow too close and can’t race in the rain because of the spray. Think Brundle also made a good point when he said he comes from an era of racing where his opinion doesn’t really count. Because they raced in far more dangerous machinery on less safe circuits in all weather. Doesn’t make it right but racing can never be totally safe.

The simple fact is they should have raced at 2 pm.

Muzzer79

5,663 posts

159 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
I’m just sat here laughing at anybody who thinks that Ecclestone would have done anything other than run the two laps under the safety car to get his money.

The only difference is he’d have probably gone on TV afterwards to say “tough” to the fans…..

sparta6

2,926 posts

72 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
I’m just sat here laughing at anybody who thinks that Ecclestone would have done anything other than run the two laps under the safety car to get his money.

The only difference is he’d have probably gone on TV afterwards to say “tough” to the fans…..
Spa '98.
Lethal conditions.
Bernie let them race

Mostly Coulthard's fault and he admitted it

Teddy Lop

6,107 posts

39 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
How the race(sic) was handled yesterday appears to the casual fan such as myself to be biblical ineptness. I hear talk that it was a team that informed masi he had the authority to stop the clock. But it'd be wrong to single masi out.

We live in a world of creeping saftyism. What we called acceptable risk yesterday is unacceptable today. F1 wants safe because that's seen as the right thing to do, but you can't have your cake and eat it. In light of what we call safe in 2021:

1) Is the circuit compatible with the safety level they want, yes or no.

2) Are the cars safe to drive in the rain, yes or no.

If the answers were yes then the race should have gone ahead. If either answer is no then fix what are predictable issues. F1 is supposed to be about cutting edge, canny thinking, adapting to challenges.

While masi & co handled the minute pretty poorly, it strikes me his ultimate choice was playing his luck and risking damnation or playing safe and being damned.

StevieBee

10,378 posts

227 months

Monday 30th August
quotequote all
cc3 said:
StevieBee said:
If that were true, they'd have run the full race regardless - as they did in Fiji in '76, a decision that was certainly about the money.

Refunds to spectators are the responsibility of the promotor, not F1 or the FIA. The promotor may seek compensation from either of these though I would imagine there's clauses that exclude natural events for the grounds of rebate against which insurance would kick in.

Yesterday was about keeping everyone safe.

As to the call for Masi to go, I would say that F1 is currently being governed and run with levels of efficiency, transparency and quality never seen before. I'm sure that if they could go back, a few things would have been done differently but I cannot recall a race in F1's history that has been affected so badly by the weather.
So precedent now set if it rains for the afternoon they dont race? Just the two laps behind safety car and half points. As Brundle says racing is dangerous and they can move the loud peddle up as well as down. Are we in an era now where little overtaking in the dry as they can’t follow too close and can’t race in the rain because of the spray. Think Brundle also made a good point when he said he comes from an era of racing where his opinion doesn’t really count. Because they raced in far more dangerous machinery on less safe circuits in all weather. Doesn’t make it right but racing can never be totally safe.

The simple fact is they should have raced at 2 pm.
The thing about the accelerator going both ways is a misnomer. Firstly, F1 cars need speed to generate downforce, the lower the speed, the lower the downforce and when you have standing water, it quickly becomes a rudderless boat.

Secondly, the issue yesterday was not the grip. Many actually said this was fine. The issue was visibility. If a car hit the barriers at the top of Eau Rouge and ended up sideways on the track, the first time the following driver would have known anything of this is when he hit it. Look what happened to Anthoine Hubert in 2019 - and that was on a fine and clear day.

Yesterday was unique in F1 history so precedent has been set. My view is that Masi made the right decisions in the context of the rules that were not accommodating of the conditions. You can't rewrite the regulations on the hoof and have to work with what you have at the time. I've no doubt the rules will be tweaked.