Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
I would mildly disagree with a few sentiments chap, and that is that there are quite a few female air force pilots both in fast jet worldwide and commercial, that is probably more strenuous physically and obviously more mentally, but there is a take up there, and of course that can be balanced by a need to tick boxes, unlike motorsport that is ONLY based at the top level on speed.
And that is the big issue, any F1 team is crying out for the media attention of getting a worthwhile female F1 driver, but there are not any even close.
Are we therefore saying that with training a military fast pilot can be any sex, but a race driver ONLY has to rely on talent, instinct, bravery, therefore almost excluding women?
Maybe so. as for sure in many ways a fighter pilot has to think, react, plan a lot more than a race driver does.
Just thinking through this comparison. Fighter pilots or aerobatics pilots will hit higher G loadings, but only in one direction and with a suit on. They will only have to perform under these circumstances for a short time, seconds to minutes at most I'd expect. F1 race is 1-3 hrs, never mind test days where they can do double race distances. And F1 are hitting these forces every few seconds in different directions.And that is the big issue, any F1 team is crying out for the media attention of getting a worthwhile female F1 driver, but there are not any even close.
Are we therefore saying that with training a military fast pilot can be any sex, but a race driver ONLY has to rely on talent, instinct, bravery, therefore almost excluding women?
Maybe so. as for sure in many ways a fighter pilot has to think, react, plan a lot more than a race driver does.
Similarly with the fast thinking, to be equivalent to F1 you would probably have to be in the equivalent of a sustained dogfight for 2 hours, rather than planning while on autopilot etc.
And remember it is not just the physical activity of driving the car you need to do, that is "easy", F1 drivers need to do it to the best of the machines capability lap after lap, you have to be the best of the best not just capable.
I dont think there have been any female competitors in the Red Bull Air Races? and if so no winners.
A quick Google suggests there has only been one woman so far to qualify through US Navy Top Gun and as far as I can see no female instructors. Don't know about equivalent qualifications for other air forces?
I wonder how much longer W series will last for. Even if it were to be effective at getting young girls to take up karting then it'll take about another ten years to see if an increased number actually remain in the sport and start to regularly find their way at least into F2.
Will it last that long though? I've a feeling people will want to see results sooner than that (even though that's just how long it will take) if it's to remain sufficiently interesting to continue to attract an audience.
Will it last that long though? I've a feeling people will want to see results sooner than that (even though that's just how long it will take) if it's to remain sufficiently interesting to continue to attract an audience.
TheDeuce said:
Will it last that long though? I've a feeling people will want to see results sooner than that (even though that's just how long it will take) if it's to remain sufficiently interesting to continue to attract an audience.
To be honest I am amazed that they don't have the GP2/F2 rule whereby once you win the title, you have to move on. I have often thought that it would surely be in W Series interest to come to an agreement with an F3 team to place the W Series title winner in their F3 car for the following year rather than handing out $500,000 that doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to modern single-seater budgets. Chadwick may become a problem for W Series if she wins a third title because her remaining there just bottlenecks what should be a conveyor belt process.
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
TwentyFive said:
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
Jamie Chadwick raced in the 2019–20 F3 Asian Championship. 1 Netherlands Joey Alders 266
2 Australia Jack Doohan 229
3 Russia Nikita Mazepin 186
4 United Kingdom Jamie Chadwick 139
5 Brazil Pietro Fittipaldi 119
She did well, but was beaten by Mazepin who as we all know was never good enough to cut it in F1. To say that she deserves an F1 drive based on that performance is laughable.
It is also laughable to say that it is not fair for women drivers as men are genetically programmed to take more risks. It's a 100% level playing field, to get into F1 you have to be good enough to beat your peers in F3 and F2. Even this is not good enough as Oscar Piastri has found, but having a billionaire father helps as well.
There are hundreds of decent drivers with more talent than Ms Chadwick who have not made it either, due to luck or finance. To suggest that her being female is the reason she is not in F1 is a joke.
Joey Deacon said:
TwentyFive said:
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
Jamie Chadwick raced in the 2019–20 F3 Asian Championship. 1 Netherlands Joey Alders 266
2 Australia Jack Doohan 229
3 Russia Nikita Mazepin 186
4 United Kingdom Jamie Chadwick 139
5 Brazil Pietro Fittipaldi 119
She did well, but was beaten by Mazepin who as we all know was never good enough to cut it in F1. To say that she deserves an F1 drive based on that performance is laughable.
It is also laughable to say that it is not fair for women drivers as men are genetically programmed to take more risks. It's a 100% level playing field, to get into F1 you have to be good enough to beat your peers in F3 and F2. Even this is not good enough as Oscar Piastri has found, but having a billionaire father helps as well.
There are hundreds of decent drivers with more talent than Ms Chadwick who have not made it either, due to luck or finance. To suggest that her being female is the reason she is not in F1 is a joke.
I know it's all about the money but frankly it's not that much money and I'd have thought could be raised by new sponsorship that an interesting female racer could attract. Or as posted above, come up with a standing deal with an F3 team to take the winner of W series as a driver the following season. There must be a sponsor out there who would back such an initiative and be happily linked to delivering a new female driver into a mix with men every year.
I'm not claiming it's as simple as I'm suggesting to sort the £££ but it's got to be possible and the attention grabbing nature of female drivers penetrating a typically male sport does have value.
TwentyFive said:
TheDeuce said:
Will it last that long though? I've a feeling people will want to see results sooner than that (even though that's just how long it will take) if it's to remain sufficiently interesting to continue to attract an audience.
To be honest I am amazed that they don't have the GP2/F2 rule whereby once you win the title, you have to move on. I have often thought that it would surely be in W Series interest to come to an agreement with an F3 team to place the W Series title winner in their F3 car for the following year rather than handing out $500,000 that doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to modern single-seater budgets. Chadwick may become a problem for W Series if she wins a third title because her remaining there just bottlenecks what should be a conveyor belt process.
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
The comment about progression has already happened. Chadwick went and did Formula Regional Europe after winning the first season of W Series. She got well beaten and was off the pace in that (in a car that's the same chassis as the W Series, and engine?), and that killed off any step up to FIA F3 in 2021.
df76 said:
TwentyFive said:
TheDeuce said:
Will it last that long though? I've a feeling people will want to see results sooner than that (even though that's just how long it will take) if it's to remain sufficiently interesting to continue to attract an audience.
To be honest I am amazed that they don't have the GP2/F2 rule whereby once you win the title, you have to move on. I have often thought that it would surely be in W Series interest to come to an agreement with an F3 team to place the W Series title winner in their F3 car for the following year rather than handing out $500,000 that doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to modern single-seater budgets. Chadwick may become a problem for W Series if she wins a third title because her remaining there just bottlenecks what should be a conveyor belt process.
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
The comment about progression has already happened. Chadwick went and did Formula Regional Europe after winning the first season of W Series. She got well beaten and was off the pace in that (in a car that's the same chassis as the W Series, and engine?), and that killed off any step up to FIA F3 in 2021.
I don't see the point of any other direction. W series is not that far removed from F3 in terms of what they're driving in any case, it's the natural next step. Even if for many it's a step too far, it's still the step they need to at least attempt.
The idea of 'forcing' women to compete in a sport by gerrymandering a specific series is just silly and does nobody any favour. It smacks of modern 'wokeness'. Let people do what they want to do. I'm not sure what the male equivalent would be, but there are some things that having a Y chromosome means you're more more inclined to be good at it. Science is a b
h. But it's also proven fact.
Racing has always been totally open; girls, boys, men, whatever, the stopwatch is king. A segregated series (can you imagine the outrage at a boys only series!) doesn't help anyone apart from the winners bank account. As has been mentioned here many times, even the best of W are merely 'ok' in the real world, so what's the point, where's the progression?
h. But it's also proven fact. Racing has always been totally open; girls, boys, men, whatever, the stopwatch is king. A segregated series (can you imagine the outrage at a boys only series!) doesn't help anyone apart from the winners bank account. As has been mentioned here many times, even the best of W are merely 'ok' in the real world, so what's the point, where's the progression?
I think if I were her, after getting this 3rd championship in the bag I would just retire to coaching / stunt driving etc.
it is probably quite a thing having the weight of comfortably being the best female racer out there and knowing if you move on to a high mixed series you are likely to fail.
Not only does it do you no good but it probably harm the cause of women in motorsport showing the best of their best is just alright
it is probably quite a thing having the weight of comfortably being the best female racer out there and knowing if you move on to a high mixed series you are likely to fail.
Not only does it do you no good but it probably harm the cause of women in motorsport showing the best of their best is just alright
Ok so the comparisons with flying are more than valid, there is little take up, but there are women who have reached the pinnacle, to even think one got to Top Gun school is staggering as I doubt that sort of group is about making PC gestures.
I had a distant friend who got to fly buck 30s and Nimrods I think and was one of the first ever female RAF pilots and her path was not at all easy this was way before the PC brigade came on board aswell.
If you hear Mouton being interviewed man she was hellish determined, she pushed herself and her team harder than you can imagine, she knew what she was up against and fought like hell to achieve and she did.
I do not think this series helps at all, I have suggested multiple times now to move it away from a series and instead offer subsidised drives in yes a single seater series, as maybe the top prize, but then also WEC, GTWC, TCR, WRC etc etc, they could easily get the funding for that, this series has proved it is not working, despite all the hullaballoo. the focus on F1 is too much and too much pressure for the series as well as the women.
I had a distant friend who got to fly buck 30s and Nimrods I think and was one of the first ever female RAF pilots and her path was not at all easy this was way before the PC brigade came on board aswell.
If you hear Mouton being interviewed man she was hellish determined, she pushed herself and her team harder than you can imagine, she knew what she was up against and fought like hell to achieve and she did.
I do not think this series helps at all, I have suggested multiple times now to move it away from a series and instead offer subsidised drives in yes a single seater series, as maybe the top prize, but then also WEC, GTWC, TCR, WRC etc etc, they could easily get the funding for that, this series has proved it is not working, despite all the hullaballoo. the focus on F1 is too much and too much pressure for the series as well as the women.
TwentyFive said:
To be honest I am amazed that they don't have the GP2/F2 rule whereby once you win the title, you have to move on.
I have often thought that it would surely be in W Series interest to come to an agreement with an F3 team to place the W Series title winner in their F3 car for the following year rather than handing out $500,000 that doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to modern single-seater budgets. Chadwick may become a problem for W Series if she wins a third title because her remaining there just bottlenecks what should be a conveyor belt process.
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
W Series won't put in place such a rule because it would only further weaken what is already a very weak field of drivers. If you don't allow the higher quality drivers that win each year the overall driver quality will just decrease. It's not as if winning W Series is proof you are worthy of moving up higher, far from it.I have often thought that it would surely be in W Series interest to come to an agreement with an F3 team to place the W Series title winner in their F3 car for the following year rather than handing out $500,000 that doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to modern single-seater budgets. Chadwick may become a problem for W Series if she wins a third title because her remaining there just bottlenecks what should be a conveyor belt process.
The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
To come to this sort of arrangement with an F3 team would require W Series to have drivers good enough for F3, which is pretty evident it does not. Chadwick is the best they have and evidence shows she can't hold her own at high level regional F3 level let alone in FIA F3. No team is going to want to be lumped with a driver not worthy of being there on merit and therefore having a car being terminally at the rear. Hitech would be the expected team to have such a link up with W Series considering they operate the W Series cars, it speaks volumes that they don't. They even have first hand knowledge and insight with working with the drivers themselves.
The W Series prize funds is above and beyond what even higher level series offer to their champion, to say it is not enough is laughable. Yes it may result in W Series supposedly not having enough for a drive elsewhere (which is a debateable claim!) but that stems more from how sponsor unfriendly drivers who lack results usually are. Those spending their money on someone else tend to want something in return, if the results aren't there neither are the cheques!
The smart amongst us have been able to see progression from this series was always going to be an issue. You can't just use a specification of cars and plonk any quality of drivers and expect them to be able to progress out of the series if the series is not representative quality of the surrounding series of supposedly equal standing. W Series may use F3 Regional cars but it is not up to the standard of the other F3 Regional series. It is closer to F4 and is in reality using a specification of car that is too high.
In order to be able to achieve it's goal of boosting female drivers in to higher series it needed to place itself in a realistic position on the ladder whereby enabling drivers to graduate higher. When you have a grid of realistically F4 competition level drivers you are going to have an almost impossible task to get them in to F3.
df76 said:
I'm pretty sure that when the series was first launched there was discussion that the winner would always have to move on, but that was obviously changed...
The comment about progression has already happened. Chadwick went and did Formula Regional Europe after winning the first season of W Series. She got well beaten and was off the pace in that (in a car that's the same chassis as the W Series, and engine?), and that killed off any step up to FIA F3 in 2021.
Exactly, which is why it is bizarre that she is lauded as some hot talent that is being denied opportunities she 'deserves'. How many other drivers that finished in the standings behind drivers who only entered some of the races in a season do you see being described as deserving a shot in an even higher series?The comment about progression has already happened. Chadwick went and did Formula Regional Europe after winning the first season of W Series. She got well beaten and was off the pace in that (in a car that's the same chassis as the W Series, and engine?), and that killed off any step up to FIA F3 in 2021.
She went in to that series not only with first hand knowledge of the Tatuus chassis but also driving for Prema yet get similar results to Sophia Floersch who had not driven it before and was driving for a poorer performing team. Meaning that in reality Sophia outperformed Jamie yet Jamie is the one that is touted as the next female racing driver.
RB Will said:
I think if I were her, after getting this 3rd championship in the bag I would just retire to coaching / stunt driving etc.
it is probably quite a thing having the weight of comfortably being the best female racer out there and knowing if you move on to a high mixed series you are likely to fail.
Not only does it do you no good but it probably harm the cause of women in motorsport showing the best of their best is just alright
She is not even close to being the best female racing driver...it is probably quite a thing having the weight of comfortably being the best female racer out there and knowing if you move on to a high mixed series you are likely to fail.
Not only does it do you no good but it probably harm the cause of women in motorsport showing the best of their best is just alright
There are plenty of others that easily are better than her, they just don't have the press fawning over them in the same way Jamie does. To say she is the best is rather insulting to Legge, de Silvestro, Mann, even Floersch & Calderon who have all surpass her. She get's lauded as the golden girl because she wins W Series which has been placed on a pedastal.
jsf said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I do not think this series helps at all, I have suggested multiple times now to move it away from a series and instead offer subsidised drives in yes a single seater series, as maybe the top prize, but then also WEC, GTWC, TCR, WRC etc etc, they could easily get the funding for that, this series has proved it is not working, despite all the hullaballoo. the focus on F1 is too much and too much pressure for the series as well as the women.
There is no money to be made supporting someone up the ladder with funding.Just like in the gold rush, the people who made it rich supplied the shovels.
F3 isn't all that expensive and if a team was willing and new they would receive a new female driver each year, they could probably do very well out of sponsorship.
That's a back of a fag packet idea and of course it would need a lot of effort and research to find out if it could even work. But there is interest in female racers entering F3, there always has been. There has to be a fairly significant monetary value that can be placed upon that level of interest in terms of suitable sponsorship. And there also has to be some way of moving W series winners up a notch at the end of the season, even if none of them do very well. It's better as a race fan to watch a driver ascend as far as they can rather than stop one rung short of what they could perhaps achieve.
Or at least it would be nice to find out - rather than the top female drivers these days getting caught in a rinse and repeat cycle in W series.
No, Jamie is not F1 material. She is an excellent racer though.
And yes, there will be a female F1 champion one day, It is just that fewer women race so the percentage chances diminish. I have taught plenty of excellent drivers and, if you closed your eyes, you would not know if they were male or female. In fact, even with the eyes open it can sometimes be difficult - the same same but different with with ladyboys in Thailand.
Anyway...as you were...
And yes, there will be a female F1 champion one day, It is just that fewer women race so the percentage chances diminish. I have taught plenty of excellent drivers and, if you closed your eyes, you would not know if they were male or female. In fact, even with the eyes open it can sometimes be difficult - the same same but different with with ladyboys in Thailand.
Anyway...as you were...
pablo said:
If I were her, I’d go to WEC or GTs and have a long and successful career far away from the hell that is modern F1, referring to it as the “circus” has never been more apt.
The problem with that is the driver categories. She's classified as a "silver" driver at the moment (Warren Hughes is now a silver for example, and so is Sophia Floersch). I doubt any team would be paying her, and I expect she'd have to bring a chunk of cash. It might work in her favour as decent silver drivers could be very useful.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff