Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?

Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?

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Peacockantony

168 posts

137 months

Monday 16th May
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TwentyFive said:
To be honest I am amazed that they don't have the GP2/F2 rule whereby once you win the title, you have to move on.

I have often thought that it would surely be in W Series interest to come to an agreement with an F3 team to place the W Series title winner in their F3 car for the following year rather than handing out $500,000 that doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to modern single-seater budgets. Chadwick may become a problem for W Series if she wins a third title because her remaining there just bottlenecks what should be a conveyor belt process.

The series needs a clear progression path toward the top and a link to an F3 team could help that. Mind you, it could also prove W Series to be a folly if the champion went to F3 and got destroyed which wouldn't be a surprise either.
W Series won't put in place such a rule because it would only further weaken what is already a very weak field of drivers. If you don't allow the higher quality drivers that win each year the overall driver quality will just decrease. It's not as if winning W Series is proof you are worthy of moving up higher, far from it.

To come to this sort of arrangement with an F3 team would require W Series to have drivers good enough for F3, which is pretty evident it does not. Chadwick is the best they have and evidence shows she can't hold her own at high level regional F3 level let alone in FIA F3. No team is going to want to be lumped with a driver not worthy of being there on merit and therefore having a car being terminally at the rear. Hitech would be the expected team to have such a link up with W Series considering they operate the W Series cars, it speaks volumes that they don't. They even have first hand knowledge and insight with working with the drivers themselves.

The W Series prize funds is above and beyond what even higher level series offer to their champion, to say it is not enough is laughable. Yes it may result in W Series supposedly not having enough for a drive elsewhere (which is a debateable claim!) but that stems more from how sponsor unfriendly drivers who lack results usually are. Those spending their money on someone else tend to want something in return, if the results aren't there neither are the cheques!

The smart amongst us have been able to see progression from this series was always going to be an issue. You can't just use a specification of cars and plonk any quality of drivers and expect them to be able to progress out of the series if the series is not representative quality of the surrounding series of supposedly equal standing. W Series may use F3 Regional cars but it is not up to the standard of the other F3 Regional series. It is closer to F4 and is in reality using a specification of car that is too high.

In order to be able to achieve it's goal of boosting female drivers in to higher series it needed to place itself in a realistic position on the ladder whereby enabling drivers to graduate higher. When you have a grid of realistically F4 competition level drivers you are going to have an almost impossible task to get them in to F3.

Peacockantony

168 posts

137 months

Monday 16th May
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df76 said:
I'm pretty sure that when the series was first launched there was discussion that the winner would always have to move on, but that was obviously changed...

The comment about progression has already happened. Chadwick went and did Formula Regional Europe after winning the first season of W Series. She got well beaten and was off the pace in that (in a car that's the same chassis as the W Series, and engine?), and that killed off any step up to FIA F3 in 2021.
Exactly, which is why it is bizarre that she is lauded as some hot talent that is being denied opportunities she 'deserves'. How many other drivers that finished in the standings behind drivers who only entered some of the races in a season do you see being described as deserving a shot in an even higher series?

She went in to that series not only with first hand knowledge of the Tatuus chassis but also driving for Prema yet get similar results to Sophia Floersch who had not driven it before and was driving for a poorer performing team. Meaning that in reality Sophia outperformed Jamie yet Jamie is the one that is touted as the next female racing driver.

RB Will said:
I think if I were her, after getting this 3rd championship in the bag I would just retire to coaching / stunt driving etc.
it is probably quite a thing having the weight of comfortably being the best female racer out there and knowing if you move on to a high mixed series you are likely to fail.
Not only does it do you no good but it probably harm the cause of women in motorsport showing the best of their best is just alright
She is not even close to being the best female racing driver...

There are plenty of others that easily are better than her, they just don't have the press fawning over them in the same way Jamie does. To say she is the best is rather insulting to Legge, de Silvestro, Mann, even Floersch & Calderon who have all surpass her. She get's lauded as the golden girl because she wins W Series which has been placed on a pedastal.

jsf

26,230 posts

214 months

Monday 16th May
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LukeBrown66 said:
I do not think this series helps at all, I have suggested multiple times now to move it away from a series and instead offer subsidised drives in yes a single seater series, as maybe the top prize, but then also WEC, GTWC, TCR, WRC etc etc, they could easily get the funding for that, this series has proved it is not working, despite all the hullaballoo. the focus on F1 is too much and too much pressure for the series as well as the women.
There is no money to be made supporting someone up the ladder with funding.

Just like in the gold rush, the people who made it rich supplied the shovels.

TheDeuce

14,496 posts

44 months

Monday 16th May
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jsf said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I do not think this series helps at all, I have suggested multiple times now to move it away from a series and instead offer subsidised drives in yes a single seater series, as maybe the top prize, but then also WEC, GTWC, TCR, WRC etc etc, they could easily get the funding for that, this series has proved it is not working, despite all the hullaballoo. the focus on F1 is too much and too much pressure for the series as well as the women.
There is no money to be made supporting someone up the ladder with funding.

Just like in the gold rush, the people who made it rich supplied the shovels.
I think with the right arrangement in place there could be two way value in having the winner of W series promoted to a waiting seat in an F3 team each season.

F3 isn't all that expensive and if a team was willing and new they would receive a new female driver each year, they could probably do very well out of sponsorship.

That's a back of a fag packet idea and of course it would need a lot of effort and research to find out if it could even work. But there is interest in female racers entering F3, there always has been. There has to be a fairly significant monetary value that can be placed upon that level of interest in terms of suitable sponsorship. And there also has to be some way of moving W series winners up a notch at the end of the season, even if none of them do very well. It's better as a race fan to watch a driver ascend as far as they can rather than stop one rung short of what they could perhaps achieve.

Or at least it would be nice to find out - rather than the top female drivers these days getting caught in a rinse and repeat cycle in W series.

PhilAsia

1,110 posts

53 months

Tuesday 17th May
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No, Jamie is not F1 material. She is an excellent racer though.

And yes, there will be a female F1 champion one day, It is just that fewer women race so the percentage chances diminish. I have taught plenty of excellent drivers and, if you closed your eyes, you would not know if they were male or female. In fact, even with the eyes open it can sometimes be difficult - the same same but different with with ladyboys in Thailand.

Anyway...as you were...

Oilchange

8,036 posts

238 months

Tuesday 17th May
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I suspect we've come to the inevitable stage where there simply isn't a female driver good enough at the moment not least because they haven't either been through the right 'mill' or got the wonga to shoe horn themselves in...

df76

3,337 posts

256 months

Tuesday 17th May
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pablo said:
If I were her, I’d go to WEC or GTs and have a long and successful career far away from the hell that is modern F1, referring to it as the “circus” has never been more apt.
The problem with that is the driver categories. She's classified as a "silver" driver at the moment (Warren Hughes is now a silver for example, and so is Sophia Floersch). I doubt any team would be paying her, and I expect she'd have to bring a chunk of cash. It might work in her favour as decent silver drivers could be very useful.

ch37

8,938 posts

199 months

Saturday 21st May
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3 out of 3 (and 5 in a row including the end of last season)


Tazar

284 posts

170 months

Saturday 21st May
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No doubting her ability in W Series but where afterwards?
It’s a question that’s been asked for years, do you want to have a good career being a racing driver in various National Series, Historics and celebrity events or strive unrealistically for F1 ?

JonChalk

5,833 posts

88 months

Saturday 21st May
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Tazar said:
No doubting her ability in W Series but where afterwards?
It’s a question that’s been asked for years, do you want to have a good career being a racing driver in various National Series, Historics and celebrity events or strive unrealistically for F1 ?
Sportscars and GT racing would seem the obvious choices, possibly even IndyCar.

She's a way better driver than Esmee Hawkey who, sadly, is mostly trailing the back of the DTM field.
She's probably a better driver than Sophia Floersch who is doing pretty well in ELMS LMP2.
She's definitely better than Tatiana Calderon who is floating around the back of the IndyCar grid (though did ok in the wet race last week to be fair).

If they can get drives in these series, then Chadwick should be able to get quality drives in those series.

Tazar

284 posts

170 months

Saturday 21st May
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But she needs to make those moves sooner rather than later before the criticism gets to her.

Yazza54

16,505 posts

159 months

Saturday 21st May
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ch37 said:
3 out of 3 (and 5 in a row including the end of last season)

Big fish (relatively) in small pond.

Until she does the same on a unisex grid, no one's gonna take note.

FourWheelDrift

84,671 posts

262 months

Saturday 21st May
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Yazza54 said:
Big fish (relatively) in small pond.

Until she does the same on a unisex grid, no one's gonna take note.
Unisex grid - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%9319_MRF_...

See the results at the India round against Jack Doohan, he's racing in F2 this year.

Koln-RS

3,495 posts

190 months

Saturday 21st May
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…and, as mentioned on a previous page, Asian F3


She’s also a very good GT and Endurance driver, having co-won several titles. I even saw her racing in the Spa 6Hr Classic a couple of years ago, in a lwt E-Type. I was with a group, inc Marcus Pye, and we were all amazed how she threw it around in heavy traffic and changing weather for hours on end.


Edited by Koln-RS on Saturday 21st May 22:25

Yazza54

16,505 posts

159 months

Saturday 21st May
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I'm not suggesting she can't, I am saying she is flourishing in the wrong company. It doesn't prove anything. I can only imagine she's doing it for the prize money at this point.

jsf

26,230 posts

214 months

Saturday 21st May
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Koln-RS said:
I even saw her racing in the Spa 6Hr Classic a couple of years ago, in a lwt E-Type. I was with a group, inc Marcus Pye, and we were all amazed how she threw it around in heavy traffic and changing weather for hours on end.
She was 5.5s a lap slower than the fastest E-Type. (assuming she was the fastest of the pair in that car)

Fair play to her for having a go in the event, it's quite a challenge, especially for someone as young as she was, but she didn't show enough pace to make her look like an up and coming top pro. By comparison some of the young drivers in that event have ended up as F1 drivers, works WEC drivers and WEC world champions, they were ballistic, you could see the talent shine.

Spa 6 hours is a great event full of some of the best historic racers, she didn't stand out against those, she was no where near a pro in that type of car.

Koln-RS

3,495 posts

190 months

Sunday 22nd May
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It was 2019 - just googled the results.
She was the pro-driver and finished 11th overall from 100 starters, and 2nd E-Type home, which I thought was a good showing.
Obviously has no bearing on F1, but it would be wrong to suggest she’s a one series star, she seems to have done quite a lot of stuff.

coppice

7,365 posts

122 months

Sunday 22nd May
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Tazar said:
But she needs to make those moves sooner rather than later before the criticism gets to her.
I suspect most of the criticism is on here -

- 'she's not good enough '

- 'women aren't good enough '

- 'women get better breaks than men and it's so unfair'

- 'she's arrogant '

- ' W series isn't as fast as other series'

And so on , ad nauseam .

I wish her all the best .

LukeBrown66

2,355 posts

24 months

Sunday 22nd May
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The big issue is that I presume she cannot attract the backing to stay in single seaters or secure a drive that gives her the time to improve, I know she has had tests etc, and done a few seasons years back she won a race too I think.

But it seems she is either not good enough to move up or is determined to stay in this series and try and move up, she is winning routinely which is good, but it is very clear team bosses take no interest.

Now if she could bring money a la Calderon she would get somewhere, but maybe she cannot manage that.

Obviously she is good enough for GT, prototype racing or even America, but at the moment she is trying to land that dream seat, I wonder who manages her, can they not get enough money together to allow her to move up? or should they, as many have suggested stop trying this path, move away and secure her a drive in GT or prototype racing, where I am sure she would be fine.

This obsession with single seaters is dumb, she would get just as much notoriety from winning Le Mans or something, it is the biggest race in the world ffs!

jsf

26,230 posts

214 months

Sunday 22nd May
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coppice said:
I suspect most of the criticism is on here -

- 'she's not good enough '

- 'women aren't good enough '

- 'women get better breaks than men and it's so unfair'

- 'she's arrogant '

- ' W series isn't as fast as other series'

And so on , ad nauseam .

I wish her all the best .
No, that's not what people are saying.

People are saying she isn't quick enough for F1, which is what this thread is about.

As i and many have said, there is nothing wrong with Jamie, she does a good job, but she isn't fast enough against the people she needs to beat to make it to the top level, most people aren't. It's likely she isn't even the quickest woman racing today.

The fact she is better than everyone else in W Series doesn't bode well for any Female driver making it to F1 in the near future.