Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
thiscocks said:
paulguitar said:
Can anyone explain why women can't compete on equal terms with men at snooker and darts?
An example of how women don't have the same coordination, muscle memory and cognitive abilities as men in general. Which certainly plays a part in driving. 
k off. FFS Crofty likes both as well as football, so massively laddish sports......;)paulguitar said:
Can anyone explain why women can't compete on equal terms with men at snooker and darts?
They can, and they do. Same with equestrian events, shooting, sailing - to just use Olympic sports, before we move on to chess, poker etc. Anything where the dexterical manipulation of equipment - as opposed to an ultimate physical exertion - is the sporting contest. Which definitely includes motorsports. Yes, an F1 driver needs to be physically fit, they work hard at exercise - especially the neck - and all have full-time personal trainers. But the level of fitness is not the ultimate determinant of performance, and the baseline is low enough that it can be done with training for most people - as opposed to Olympians, who are mostly physical freaks of nature to begin with.
Sandpit Steve said:
They can, and they do. Same with equestrian events, shooting, sailing - to just use Olympic sports, before we move on to chess, poker etc. Anything where the dexterical manipulation of equipment - as opposed to an ultimate physical exertion - is the sporting contest. Which definitely includes motorsports.
They don't though, do they? How many women are in the PDC World Darts Championship? Without checking every name I think it is one. How many women in the World Snooker Tour (not the Women's World Snooker Tour)?I guess we will never know the answer, much like the reasons behind the UK jail population being 95% men despite equal opportunities to commit crime.
Europa Jon said:
I think we're going round in circles - no pun intended. If a Formula W victor is to prove their worth, an F3 drive needs to follow. Otherwise, a faster ladies-only series needs financing.
I totally agree, F3, then F2 if they perform well. If they perform well in F2, then the F1 teams will be aware of that and will act accordingly.TobyTR said:
cidered77 said:
"best you stop digging at some point" - yeah, thanks for advice, random internet guy who has never driven a proper race car in his life....
I dont know what else to tell you other than you're just ...wrong.
A female may need to train harder to get to the point where physicality isn't a disadvantage, but to say for the loads put on the human body during an F1 race that a female cannot train to the point she is equal to a 54kg 5'2" Yuki.... i can't make that be the case for you. Sorry - you're just wrong.
Reaction times also - look at the results of women in NHRA, loads of success there.
It just isn't a thing.... you bellends are confusing the physiological difference between men and women (of which there are many) with the *absolutely untrue* belief that the demands of an F1 car are beyond a women's ability to train for. I can't help you out anymore there - just to say that isn't true!
And on talent - what do you and the bloke below think talent actually is? it's the product of lots and lots and lots (and lots) of hard work. Read Gladwell's Outliers if you want to understand more.
What i am i arguing talent in motorsport is? i'm arguing it is a product of seat time, quantity but also quality, combined with the best support to interpret that seat time, and the right attitude (as much as aptitude) on how that time is then applied and learned from. That is your formula for "talent". And motorsport - unlike nearly all other sports - needs loads and loads and loads of money to get you that talent following that formula. Especially in the modern age. Way moreso in fact than the past.
Buuut it's the internet isn't it. And it's so much easier just to pretend likes of Hamilton and Senna were born with some kind of gene (a special men-only gene, course), and like it's easier to say "me strong, women weak, me good at driving, women not" rather than actually challenge yourselves that long held convictions are actually bks....
and "lmao" wasn't it, and "dig yourself a hole"... <long sigh>
that would be Male Testosterone, a key ingredient.I dont know what else to tell you other than you're just ...wrong.
A female may need to train harder to get to the point where physicality isn't a disadvantage, but to say for the loads put on the human body during an F1 race that a female cannot train to the point she is equal to a 54kg 5'2" Yuki.... i can't make that be the case for you. Sorry - you're just wrong.
Reaction times also - look at the results of women in NHRA, loads of success there.
It just isn't a thing.... you bellends are confusing the physiological difference between men and women (of which there are many) with the *absolutely untrue* belief that the demands of an F1 car are beyond a women's ability to train for. I can't help you out anymore there - just to say that isn't true!
And on talent - what do you and the bloke below think talent actually is? it's the product of lots and lots and lots (and lots) of hard work. Read Gladwell's Outliers if you want to understand more.
What i am i arguing talent in motorsport is? i'm arguing it is a product of seat time, quantity but also quality, combined with the best support to interpret that seat time, and the right attitude (as much as aptitude) on how that time is then applied and learned from. That is your formula for "talent". And motorsport - unlike nearly all other sports - needs loads and loads and loads of money to get you that talent following that formula. Especially in the modern age. Way moreso in fact than the past.
Buuut it's the internet isn't it. And it's so much easier just to pretend likes of Hamilton and Senna were born with some kind of gene (a special men-only gene, course), and like it's easier to say "me strong, women weak, me good at driving, women not" rather than actually challenge yourselves that long held convictions are actually b
ks....and "lmao" wasn't it, and "dig yourself a hole"... <long sigh>
Some on here don't recognise biology and physiology. You have now thrown the "T" bomb into the debate, their heads will explode.
thiscocks said:
paulguitar said:
Can anyone explain why women can't compete on equal terms with men at snooker and darts?
An example of how women don't have the same coordination, muscle memory and cognitive abilities as men in general. Which all certainly play a part in driving. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/snooker/62821241
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Dumaresq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Ivy
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-p...
Sandpit Steve said:
paulguitar said:
Can anyone explain why women can't compete on equal terms with men at snooker and darts?
They can, and they do. Same with equestrian events, shooting, sailing - to just use Olympic sports, before we move on to chess, poker etc. Anything where the dexterical manipulation of equipment - as opposed to an ultimate physical exertion - is the sporting contest. Which definitely includes motorsports. Yes, an F1 driver needs to be physically fit, they work hard at exercise - especially the neck - and all have full-time personal trainers. But the level of fitness is not the ultimate determinant of performance, and the baseline is low enough that it can be done with training for most people - as opposed to Olympians, who are mostly physical freaks of nature to begin with.
carl_w said:
Sandpit Steve said:
They can, and they do. Same with equestrian events, shooting, sailing - to just use Olympic sports, before we move on to chess, poker etc. Anything where the dexterical manipulation of equipment - as opposed to an ultimate physical exertion - is the sporting contest. Which definitely includes motorsports.
They don't though, do they? How many women are in the PDC World Darts Championship? Without checking every name I think it is one. How many women in the World Snooker Tour (not the Women's World Snooker Tour)?I guess we will never know the answer, much like the reasons behind the UK jail population being 95% men despite equal opportunities to commit crime.
The same question can also be asked about any group that is under-represented in any activity - to which the answer is usually other distractions, perceived risk, lack of encouragement, lack of role models and other social issues, as well as money.
IIRC darts and snooker are similar to motorsport, a handful of professionals among a couple of hundred pro men at the top level. 1-2%.
Sandpit Steve said:
That’s a different question. It’s not can women compete at Sport X, it’s why don’t enough women want to compete at Sport X. Even equestrianism and horse racing, which is heavily female-biased in lower and amateur categories, becomes male-dominated at the very top level.
The same question can also be asked about any group that is under-represented in any activity - to which the answer is usually other distractions, perceived risk, lack of encouragement, lack of role models and other social issues, as well as money.
IIRC darts and snooker are similar to motorsport, a handful of professionals among a couple of hundred pro men at the top level. 1-2%.
Exactly - the sample size is so much smaller that any meaningful comparison of relative performance is rendered pointless.The same question can also be asked about any group that is under-represented in any activity - to which the answer is usually other distractions, perceived risk, lack of encouragement, lack of role models and other social issues, as well as money.
IIRC darts and snooker are similar to motorsport, a handful of professionals among a couple of hundred pro men at the top level. 1-2%.
The ONLY way for any meaningful comparison would be for both groups to receive exactly the same distribution of opportunity, starting skill, bias and ongoing support - that doesn't exist so all we get is ill-informed, entrenched, biased opinion.
There is a factor few seem to recognise
And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
LukeBrown66 said:
There is a factor few seem to recognise
And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Lots of women don't follow that mould And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Martina Navratilova ,
dedicated and lead the field .........in women's tennis , Serena Williams ..........the list goes on , however these ladies are not in the same ball park as the men in their sport ,
Darts , Snooker is a different set of motor skills that women do not possess , has nothing to do with going down the pub and competing with Jockey Wilson , When you have the best snooker player ranked 114th in the World that tells its own story.
Even if you get a the most dedicated women in motor racing ,, give her all the money in the world you cant change the fact they will never compete against a man at the top echelons of the sport
DBSV8 said:
LukeBrown66 said:
There is a factor few seem to recognise
And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Lots of women don't follow that mould And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Martina Navratilova ,
dedicated and lead the field .........in women's tennis , Serena Williams ..........the list goes on , however these ladies are not in the same ball park as the men in their sport ,
Darts , Snooker is a different set of motor skills that women do not possess , has nothing to do with going down the pub and competing with Jockey Wilson , When you have the best snooker player ranked 114th in the World that tells its own story.
Even if you get a the most dedicated women in motor racing ,, give her all the money in the world you cant change the fact they will never compete against a man at the top echelons of the sport
t present on this thread;
JonChalk said:
DBSV8 said:
LukeBrown66 said:
There is a factor few seem to recognise
And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Lots of women don't follow that mould And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Martina Navratilova ,
dedicated and lead the field .........in women's tennis , Serena Williams ..........the list goes on , however these ladies are not in the same ball park as the men in their sport ,
Darts , Snooker is a different set of motor skills that women do not possess , has nothing to do with going down the pub and competing with Jockey Wilson , When you have the best snooker player ranked 114th in the World that tells its own story.
Even if you get a the most dedicated women in motor racing ,, give her all the money in the world you cant change the fact they will never compete against a man at the top echelons of the sport
t present on this thread;JonChalk said:
DBSV8 said:
LukeBrown66 said:
There is a factor few seem to recognise
And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Lots of women don't follow that mould And that is that for the vast ,majority of men being brilliant at a sport would be their career, the single greatest achievement of their life!
The vast majority of women compete as kids and then lose interest in that sport to focus more on career, dating and family.
these are not bad things, they are more mature, reasonable things to look at.
hence their focus goes and they lose interest in whatever sport they are doing unless they are very good at it and massively motivated.
A guy with talent will probably not lose interest in the sport if he cant make it as a career, whereas a woman probably will, and when you think there are far, far less of them competing anyway, what is that you expect>?
The chances of finding that one staggering talent among such a tiny pool of drivers is tiny.
And the reason they don't compete in darts and snooker is probably very similar, dating, family, stuff that matters to a guy too but not as much as darts, they will pursue this over some of those things and put darts at the top, a woman is less likely to do that.
Martina Navratilova ,
dedicated and lead the field .........in women's tennis , Serena Williams ..........the list goes on , however these ladies are not in the same ball park as the men in their sport ,
Darts , Snooker is a different set of motor skills that women do not possess , has nothing to do with going down the pub and competing with Jockey Wilson , When you have the best snooker player ranked 114th in the World that tells its own story.
Even if you get a the most dedicated women in motor racing ,, give her all the money in the world you cant change the fact they will never compete against a man at the top echelons of the sport
t present on this thread;The thing is, you cannot argue with an ostrich or a ape on here, or whatever you want to call them.
Some of these people have probably never heard of Iron Dames or watched a WEC or ELMS race, seen them in action seen how they not only compete, but pull away from fast male drivers, even in the WEC rounds often they are leading their class with a Gold or Platinum driver behind, they are top drawer, and the car is nothing special, BoP sees to that. If they haven't watched it, they are missing out on two things, one better racing then you will EVER see in F1, and also an all female team being able to beat and win against male opposition.
But the primary aspect here is that some men believe that women will never compete with men in top level single seater racing. Let them believe that, it will probably never happen in my lifetime, I would love it to.
But there is no reason whatsoever that it CANNOT happen, unless you seriously believe that f1 is purely down to athletic ability alone, and if you believe that, you are in fact an ape.
Some of these people have probably never heard of Iron Dames or watched a WEC or ELMS race, seen them in action seen how they not only compete, but pull away from fast male drivers, even in the WEC rounds often they are leading their class with a Gold or Platinum driver behind, they are top drawer, and the car is nothing special, BoP sees to that. If they haven't watched it, they are missing out on two things, one better racing then you will EVER see in F1, and also an all female team being able to beat and win against male opposition.
But the primary aspect here is that some men believe that women will never compete with men in top level single seater racing. Let them believe that, it will probably never happen in my lifetime, I would love it to.
But there is no reason whatsoever that it CANNOT happen, unless you seriously believe that f1 is purely down to athletic ability alone, and if you believe that, you are in fact an ape.
LukeBrown66 said:
The thing is, you cannot argue with an ostrich or a ape on here, or whatever you want to call them.
Some of these people have probably never heard of Iron Dames or watched a WEC or ELMS race, seen them in action seen how they not only compete, but pull away from fast male drivers, even in the WEC rounds often they are leading their class with a Gold or Platinum driver behind, they are top drawer, and the car is nothing special, BoP sees to that. If they haven't watched it, they are missing out on two things, one better racing then you will EVER see in F1, and also an all female team being able to beat and win against male opposition.
But the primary aspect here is that some men believe that women will never compete with men in top level single seater racing. Let them believe that, it will probably never happen in my lifetime, I would love it to.
But there is no reason whatsoever that it CANNOT happen, unless you seriously believe that f1 is purely down to athletic ability alone, and if you believe that, you are in fact an ape.
Some of these people have probably never heard of Iron Dames or watched a WEC or ELMS race, seen them in action seen how they not only compete, but pull away from fast male drivers, even in the WEC rounds often they are leading their class with a Gold or Platinum driver behind, they are top drawer, and the car is nothing special, BoP sees to that. If they haven't watched it, they are missing out on two things, one better racing then you will EVER see in F1, and also an all female team being able to beat and win against male opposition.
But the primary aspect here is that some men believe that women will never compete with men in top level single seater racing. Let them believe that, it will probably never happen in my lifetime, I would love it to.
But there is no reason whatsoever that it CANNOT happen, unless you seriously believe that f1 is purely down to athletic ability alone, and if you believe that, you are in fact an ape.
what colour are the clouds on your planet ?
Its not going to happen , and its got nothing to do with misogyny , its pure and simple Women cant compete in F1 with Men ,
Its akin to talking with those delusional idiots hanging around Area 51 , looking for Aliens or those that choose to believe the world is actually flat
tell you what come back in 10 years and we will see if any ladies have been successful in F1 and if your right ill buy you a pint
AS I say there is no arguing with an ape, who thinks that the only reason women can't compete is physical. If that is in fact your opinion, or is it that you simply do now want them to get to the top?
come back with some ideas as to why you think this will NEVER happen?
As for the Iron dames quote, I would imagine the dream of Bovy, Gatting et al is to get into prototypes or maybe even an iron Dames Ferrari in LMdh,
They are a long way off that at the moment, but in terms of what they are doing right now, I guess they will get a new shape Ferrari for 23, and hope they can carry on, they got some good news in that Bovy was likely to have to move up as she was given silver status, along with a lot of other drivers that has been dropped and she remains bronze, there are limits tot he class of driver you can use in Am classes.
come back with some ideas as to why you think this will NEVER happen?
As for the Iron dames quote, I would imagine the dream of Bovy, Gatting et al is to get into prototypes or maybe even an iron Dames Ferrari in LMdh,
They are a long way off that at the moment, but in terms of what they are doing right now, I guess they will get a new shape Ferrari for 23, and hope they can carry on, they got some good news in that Bovy was likely to have to move up as she was given silver status, along with a lot of other drivers that has been dropped and she remains bronze, there are limits tot he class of driver you can use in Am classes.
LukeBrown66 said:
AS I say there is no arguing with an ape, who thinks that the only reason women can't compete is physical. If that is in fact your opinion, or is it that you simply do now want them to get to the top?
come back with some ideas as to why you think this will NEVER happen?
As for the Iron dames quote, I would imagine the dream of Bovy, Gatting et al is to get into prototypes or maybe even an iron Dames Ferrari in LMdh,
They are a long way off that at the moment, but in terms of what they are doing right now, I guess they will get a new shape Ferrari for 23, and hope they can carry on, they got some good news in that Bovy was likely to have to move up as she was given silver status, along with a lot of other drivers that has been dropped and she remains bronze, there are limits tot he class of driver you can use in Am classes.
you really are a bore arent you , can imagine you as one of those really annoying , loud opinionated blokes in a pub , with everyone else running out to the beer garden come back with some ideas as to why you think this will NEVER happen?
As for the Iron dames quote, I would imagine the dream of Bovy, Gatting et al is to get into prototypes or maybe even an iron Dames Ferrari in LMdh,
They are a long way off that at the moment, but in terms of what they are doing right now, I guess they will get a new shape Ferrari for 23, and hope they can carry on, they got some good news in that Bovy was likely to have to move up as she was given silver status, along with a lot of other drivers that has been dropped and she remains bronze, there are limits tot he class of driver you can use in Am classes.
oh s
t its Luke Brown quick hide
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