Mercedes' recent straight line speed. How? Legal?
Discussion
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
You're assuming correlation equals causation Jim.
I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
Straightly speed was commented on by RB in the post race interview and was said to be very similar or words to that effect. I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
You're assuming correlation equals causation Jim.
I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
Straightly speed was commented on by RB in the post race interview and was said to be very similar or words to that effect. I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
I am sorry but that is funny.
You are ready to assume that no team principal would be willing to use data selectively, exaggerate, or outright lie to support their own preconceived notions about a competitor or to influence outward perception?
...and you're making this assumption in relation to Christian Horner in particular?
Sorry but this is a failure of critical thought. You cannot take anything any team principal choses to say publically about their observations concerning a competitor seriously.
There exists a procedure by which a competitor can protest a car which they do not believe is legal.
Statements to the press shall rightly be considered 'noise'.
HustleRussell said:
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
You're assuming correlation equals causation Jim.
I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
Straightly speed was commented on by RB in the post race interview and was said to be very similar or words to that effect. I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
I am sorry but that is funny.
You are ready to assume that no team principal would be willing to use data selectively, exaggerate, or outright lie to support their own preconceived notions about a competitor or to influence outward perception?
...and you're making this assumption in relation to Christian Horner in particular?
Sorry but this is a failure of critical thought. You cannot take anything any team principal choses to say publically about their observations concerning a competitor seriously.
There exists a procedure by which a competitor can protest a car which they do not believe is legal.
Statements to the press shall rightly be considered 'noise'.
That difference has been reduced to 3.4 km/h at Losail, with Hamilton breezing through the speed trap as the 13th fastest car while Max was 19th fastest, which suggests that Red Bull is in the vicinity of Mercedes in terms of maximum speed in Qatar.
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
You're assuming correlation equals causation Jim.
I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
Straightly speed was commented on by RB in the post race interview and was said to be very similar or words to that effect. I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
I am sorry but that is funny.
You are ready to assume that no team principal would be willing to use data selectively, exaggerate, or outright lie to support their own preconceived notions about a competitor or to influence outward perception?
...and you're making this assumption in relation to Christian Horner in particular?
Sorry but this is a failure of critical thought. You cannot take anything any team principal choses to say publically about their observations concerning a competitor seriously.
There exists a procedure by which a competitor can protest a car which they do not believe is legal.
Statements to the press shall rightly be considered 'noise'.
That difference has been reduced to 3.4 km/h at Losail, with Hamilton breezing through the speed trap as the 13th fastest car while Max was 19th fastest, which suggests that Red Bull is in the vicinity of Mercedes in terms of maximum speed in Qatar.
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
What do you think of a 7.7kph measured speed trap figure difference between Mercedes and Red Bull Jim? and what do you think 3.4kph tells us about Qatar?
jimPH said:
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
That's an interesting one. Given the high speed nature of the corners, I don't think they could set the rear to squat until relatively high speed on the straight?https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
HustleRussell said:
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
jimPH said:
HustleRussell said:
You're assuming correlation equals causation Jim.
I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
Straightly speed was commented on by RB in the post race interview and was said to be very similar or words to that effect. I've not actually happened upon speed trap data for Qatar, can you share it?
I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
I am sorry but that is funny.
You are ready to assume that no team principal would be willing to use data selectively, exaggerate, or outright lie to support their own preconceived notions about a competitor or to influence outward perception?
...and you're making this assumption in relation to Christian Horner in particular?
Sorry but this is a failure of critical thought. You cannot take anything any team principal choses to say publically about their observations concerning a competitor seriously.
There exists a procedure by which a competitor can protest a car which they do not believe is legal.
Statements to the press shall rightly be considered 'noise'.
That difference has been reduced to 3.4 km/h at Losail, with Hamilton breezing through the speed trap as the 13th fastest car while Max was 19th fastest, which suggests that Red Bull is in the vicinity of Mercedes in terms of maximum speed in Qatar.
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
What do you think of a 7.7kph measured speed trap figure difference between Mercedes and Red Bull Jim? and what do you think 3.4kph tells us about Qatar?
f1_dragon said:
jimPH said:
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
That's an interesting one. Given the high speed nature of the corners, I don't think they could set the rear to squat until relatively high speed on the straight?https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
If Mercedes were cheating in Brazil but not Qatar, how was Lewis still nearly half a second quicker than Max in Qatar?
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-the-tru...
https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-the-tru...
jimPH said:
The velocity delta across the finish line in qualifying at Sao Paulo between the Briton and championship contender Max Verstappen was 7.7 km/h.
That difference has been reduced to 3.4 km/h at Losail, with Hamilton breezing through the speed trap as the 13th fastest car while Max was 19th fastest, which suggests that Red Bull is in the vicinity of Mercedes in terms of maximum speed in Qatar.
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
Surely the rear suspension is only particularly useful where the highest speed corner, relative to other tracks is lower in speed. Following that you can then configure the suspension to start sitting down at a lower speed, generating a bigger differential. Qatar and Austin with relatively high speed corners aren't the places for that. That difference has been reduced to 3.4 km/h at Losail, with Hamilton breezing through the speed trap as the 13th fastest car while Max was 19th fastest, which suggests that Red Bull is in the vicinity of Mercedes in terms of maximum speed in Qatar.
On a 1km straight where mercs suspension trick will be most effective...
https://f1i.com/news/425754-qatar-speed-trap-who-i...
Anyhow can't say I believe it's down to any one of these individual thing, and it seems red bull aren't really sure either, just trying to throw shade and discredit mercedes because of that.
TheDeuce said:
It does make sense that Mercedes should throw all they can at this years car. This year they know they have a chance of both title, next year... it's possible they may not be in that position.
I think there is also an element of Merce being hit hardest by the new floor regs, and they're now getting on to of how to make their car work as well as previously, but differently.
The most obvious area responsible for their performance of late (along with the new PU of course) is the current evolution of their rear suspension, which is engineered fantastically to drop quickly as speed builds, just when it needs to. That effectively gives them the same benefits as RB gain from their high rake design, but with none of the drawbacks. Now they have that system working so beautifully, they are able to exploit larger wings than their competitors and still maintain whatever top speed they feel they need as a minimum.
No theories of cheating are required when we can visibly watch the fantastic engineering in motion, and can see how it gives Merc the best of both worlds.
I’m not sure they are throwing the kitchen sink at it. There hasn’t been any significant aero changes since the summer, and the new rear suspension can be carried over to next years car. It’s Red Bull that having been throwing update after update at the car.I think there is also an element of Merce being hit hardest by the new floor regs, and they're now getting on to of how to make their car work as well as previously, but differently.
The most obvious area responsible for their performance of late (along with the new PU of course) is the current evolution of their rear suspension, which is engineered fantastically to drop quickly as speed builds, just when it needs to. That effectively gives them the same benefits as RB gain from their high rake design, but with none of the drawbacks. Now they have that system working so beautifully, they are able to exploit larger wings than their competitors and still maintain whatever top speed they feel they need as a minimum.
No theories of cheating are required when we can visibly watch the fantastic engineering in motion, and can see how it gives Merc the best of both worlds.
Megaflow said:
TheDeuce said:
It does make sense that Mercedes should throw all they can at this years car. This year they know they have a chance of both title, next year... it's possible they may not be in that position.
I think there is also an element of Merce being hit hardest by the new floor regs, and they're now getting on to of how to make their car work as well as previously, but differently.
The most obvious area responsible for their performance of late (along with the new PU of course) is the current evolution of their rear suspension, which is engineered fantastically to drop quickly as speed builds, just when it needs to. That effectively gives them the same benefits as RB gain from their high rake design, but with none of the drawbacks. Now they have that system working so beautifully, they are able to exploit larger wings than their competitors and still maintain whatever top speed they feel they need as a minimum.
No theories of cheating are required when we can visibly watch the fantastic engineering in motion, and can see how it gives Merc the best of both worlds.
I’m not sure they are throwing the kitchen sink at it. There hasn’t been any significant aero changes since the summer, and the new rear suspension can be carried over to next years car. It’s Red Bull that having been throwing update after update at the car.I think there is also an element of Merce being hit hardest by the new floor regs, and they're now getting on to of how to make their car work as well as previously, but differently.
The most obvious area responsible for their performance of late (along with the new PU of course) is the current evolution of their rear suspension, which is engineered fantastically to drop quickly as speed builds, just when it needs to. That effectively gives them the same benefits as RB gain from their high rake design, but with none of the drawbacks. Now they have that system working so beautifully, they are able to exploit larger wings than their competitors and still maintain whatever top speed they feel they need as a minimum.
No theories of cheating are required when we can visibly watch the fantastic engineering in motion, and can see how it gives Merc the best of both worlds.
jimPH said:
Straightly speed was commented on by RB in the post race interview and was said to be very similar or words to that effect.
I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
He lied about the Brazil speeds. Look at the data. Max car was the slowest of all the cars in the speed trap, they chose a very draggy setup.I have no reason to believe they would lie about that, considering it was a point of conjecture last time they lost.
jsf said:
jimPH said:
Yet we see significantly reduced straight line speed on a track with higher speed. Just as they reintroduce the wing load test.
No "we" are not. The data doesn't lie, you simply dont want to look at it because Horners comments are made up bullst.
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