RB marshalling

RB marshalling

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Discussion

HocusPocus

Original Poster:

576 posts

73 months

Monday 22nd November
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Feel sick just reading what Horner and Marko said about marshalls. What a kick in the teeth for all the volunteers (remember firefighting Grosjean's fireball etc) who try to keep competitors safe. Then only a mealy mouthed forced apology.

https://www.pitpass.com/71401/Horners-criticism-of...

Anyone who has competed or stood trackside with a bunch of flags should appreciate how scumbag Horner and Marko's behaviour has become, and blaming pressure of competition simply aggravates their offence.

Love a good competition, but RB have lost my respect.

playamonte

13 posts

1 month

Monday 22nd November
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Time for Red Bull to step in and and remove this toxic pair (IMO)

TriumphStag3.0V8

1,866 posts

53 months

Monday 22nd November
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Holy s***! That's outrageous. Wtf is wrong with them?

DrDeAtH

3,417 posts

204 months

Monday 22nd November
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Maybe the marshalls would be best making a stand on this, by having a protest at the next race.
Once RB back down on their stance and apologise, or are told to go home, the racing could then start. Because, face it, no marshalls, no racing.

sandman77

1,884 posts

110 months

Monday 22nd November
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If a marshal sees a car stopped at the side of the track he waves a yellow flag. It’s marshalling 101. If another car got a sudden puncture and veered off the track at that time it could have been very nasty indeed. The marshal did his job professionally (unlike whinger spice).

kambites

62,995 posts

193 months

Monday 22nd November
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sandman77 said:
If a marshal sees a car stopped at the side of the track he waves a yellow flag. It’s marshalling 101.
Yup. The fact that someone at race control apparently cancelled the yellow boards is a bit worrying in itself; the idea that anyone could blame the marshal for waving the flags in that situation is laughable.

InformationSuperHighway

4,522 posts

156 months

Monday 22nd November
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And people wonder why Max is as arrogant and aggressive as he is.

He is totally enabled by these clowns.

The team and leadership needs a shake up. It’s toxic.

Blue62

6,435 posts

124 months

Monday 22nd November
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kambites said:
Yup. The fact that someone at race control apparently cancelled the yellow boards is a bit worrying in itself; the idea that anyone could blame the marshal for waving the flags in that situation is laughable.
This is the chief issue for me, someone more involved might like to comment on this but I can’t think of many, if any, instances where RC overruled a yellow.

StevieBee

10,378 posts

227 months

Monday 22nd November
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InformationSuperHighway said:
The team and leadership needs a shake up. It’s toxic.
It's not though, is it.

Red Bull is as near to a privateer team you get these days, operating on significantly less budget fighting for both Championships against a corporate giant on near equal terms. Nobody else is close.

One may dislike their style of management or even their driver.... but it is a very effective combination and one unlikely that Dietrich Mateschitz will be that keen to disband because of some unsavoury remarks..... particularly when you read of his comments on subjects such as refugees in Austria and his support of Trump!


Teddy Lop

6,107 posts

39 months

Monday 22nd November
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I mean, you have to be a bit of a narcissistic tvvat at the best of times to wantonly attack marshalls - who hold status not far off nurses in these circles - but to so during FIAVolunteersweekend takes some contempt when everyone else is expressing sentiments more like:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeanTodt/status/1462384...

And then, to double down with the mealy mouthed "I'm sorry if people got upset" line rather than just reflect for the millisecond it must take to realise they funked this one up...

SmoothCriminal

3,912 posts

171 months

Monday 22nd November
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You only have to see what kind of a man he is and his morals when he shacks up with ginger spice just after his wife has given birth.

InformationSuperHighway

4,522 posts

156 months

Monday 22nd November
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StevieBee said:
InformationSuperHighway said:
The team and leadership needs a shake up. It’s toxic.
It's not though, is it.

Red Bull is as near to a privateer team you get these days, operating on significantly less budget fighting for both Championships against a corporate giant on near equal terms. Nobody else is close.

One may dislike their style of management or even their driver.... but it is a very effective combination and one unlikely that Dietrich Mateschitz will be that keen to disband because of some unsavoury remarks..... particularly when you read of his comments on subjects such as refugees in Austria and his support of Trump!
They have gone much much further than 'dislike their management style' IMO.

They are bad for this sport.

jules_s

3,186 posts

205 months

Monday 22nd November
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SmoothCriminal said:
You only have to see what kind of a man he is and his morals when he shacks up with ginger spice just after his wife has given birth.
The more you read into that the worse it looks - of course we don't know all the facts, but it does seem his family disowned him which says a lot

Teddy Lop

6,107 posts

39 months

Monday 22nd November
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StevieBee said:
Red Bull is as near to a privateer team you get these days, operating on significantly less budget fighting for both Championships against a corporate giant on near equal terms. Nobody else is close.
did Horner tell you that? Its about as believable and current as Phillip schofields marriage

Sandpit Steve

4,898 posts

46 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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Not just Horner either, Marko followed up the comments about a “rogue marshal”, and David Couthard (still on RBR payroll) added his own on C4.

At least Horner got an official reprimand from the stewards, but I also would have liked to have seen him get a meaningful fine. He’s been around racing his whole life, and knows damn well that he can’t put cars on the track without the hundreds of mostly volunteers that enable it. Only a year ago, we were giving an award to the fire marshal who saved Romain Grosjean from life-threatening injuries, and presumably Horner has no problem with the team that extracted an injured Max from his car at Silverstone a few months ago?

The whole RBR organisiation is clearly throwing everything they have at the business end of the championship, and are totally losing their minds now that it seems their efforts are not quite good enough.

As others have said, it’s utterly toxic for the sport, and yes the marshals should find a way of making their views known. There will be a huge international marshalling contingent at the next race.

Also worrying that it appears the FIA wanted to keep the yellows in, despite the stranded car. There’s a long thread already on problems with race direction this year, but they need to keep their focus purely on the operational and safety aspects, and not on “the show”.

PhilAsia

310 posts

47 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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Should get Horner to meet some of the families that have lost a loved one who volunteered to Marshall.

Safety is #1.

Teddy Lop

6,107 posts

39 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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Sandpit Steve said:
Not just Horner either, Marko followed up the comments about a “rogue marshal”, and David Couthard (still on RBR payroll) added his own on C4.

At least Horner got an official reprimand from the stewards, but I also would have liked to have seen him get a meaningful fine. He’s been around racing his whole life, and knows damn well that he can’t put cars on the track without the hundreds of mostly volunteers that enable it. Only a year ago, we were giving an award to the fire marshal who saved Romain Grosjean from life-threatening injuries, and presumably Horner has no problem with the team that extracted an injured Max from his car at Silverstone a few months ago?

The whole RBR organisiation is clearly throwing everything they have at the business end of the championship, and are totally losing their minds now that it seems their efforts are not quite good enough.

As others have said, it’s utterly toxic for the sport, and yes the marshals should find a way of making their views known. There will be a huge international marshalling contingent at the next race.
[B]
Also worrying that it appears the FIA wanted to keep the yellows in, despite the stranded car. There’s a long thread already on problems with race direction this year, but they need to keep their focus purely on the operational and safety aspects, and not on “the show”.[/b]
agree wholehearted with everything else you say, but particularly on that one point, didn't horner and marko exhibit (even for them) a special kind of impertinance, as if micheal masi and the fia had personally failed them, that they were entitled to something better?

StevieBee

10,378 posts

227 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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Teddy Lop said:
StevieBee said:
Red Bull is as near to a privateer team you get these days, operating on significantly less budget fighting for both Championships against a corporate giant on near equal terms. Nobody else is close.
did Horner tell you that? Its about as believable and current as Phillip schofields marriage
Well, it is. They're not owned by a major manufacturer and the last time I looked their operating budget was around 70% of that of Mercedes and Ferrari. Plus they're using an engine from a company that no longer wants to be in F1. They shouldn't be as good as they are or have been in the past and looking at Red Bull purely as a team you have to conclude their success is remarkable.

Given this and the fact that their owner is so right wing as to make Farage look like a soft liberal, I very much doubt that calls for management shake-ups will be acted upon or accusations of toxicity be particularly bothering to them.

Much of the snipping between them and Mercedes this year has all been part of the game. Ross Brawn mentions this in his book - that you use whatever strategy you can within the rules to destabilise the competition. This includes making spurious accusations as to the legality of parts and the like. What's happened over the past few races is that Mercedes have retaken the advantage. Red Bull recognise next year as being a re-set in F1 (potentially) so may be a while before they get another shot. In short, they're panicking. And when panic sets in, people often say and do daft things.

That is not to condone Horner's and Marko's comments which are, in my view, abhorrent.






CraigyMc

13,064 posts

208 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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StevieBee said:
Teddy Lop said:
StevieBee said:
Red Bull is as near to a privateer team you get these days, operating on significantly less budget fighting for both Championships against a corporate giant on near equal terms. Nobody else is close.
did Horner tell you that? Its about as believable and current as Phillip schofields marriage
Well, it is. They're not owned by a major manufacturer and the last time I looked their operating budget was around 70% of that of Mercedes and Ferrari. Plus they're using an engine from a company that no longer wants to be in F1. They shouldn't be as good as they are or have been in the past and looking at Red Bull purely as a team you have to conclude their success is remarkable.

Given this and the fact that their owner is so right wing as to make Farage look like a soft liberal, I very much doubt that calls for management shake-ups will be acted upon or accusations of toxicity be particularly bothering to them.

Much of the snipping between them and Mercedes this year has all been part of the game. Ross Brawn mentions this in his book - that you use whatever strategy you can within the rules to destabilise the competition. This includes making spurious accusations as to the legality of parts and the like. What's happened over the past few races is that Mercedes have retaken the advantage. Red Bull recognise next year as being a re-set in F1 (potentially) so may be a while before they get another shot. In short, they're panicking. And when panic sets in, people often say and do daft things.

That is not to condone Horner's and Marko's comments which are, in my view, abhorrent.
Are you aware of the cost cap?

PhilAsia

310 posts

47 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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