What separates the excellent from the elite?

What separates the excellent from the elite?

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Discussion

bristolracer

4,846 posts

121 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
hot metal said:
LukeBrown66 said:
Interesting stuff about Prost being political, can someone please explain to me what is wrong with that?
Well, you win any way you can within the rules, but he would often make sure ,or try to, he was in a position of strength within the team, not sure how that worked with Senna, well we saw how that worked with Senna but doing your talking on the track is more sporting. I suppose this goes on a lot more than is obvious.
Schumacher was always very keen to be shown his teammates data, he was less forthcoming in sharing his.



hot metal

1,589 posts

165 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Might be looking for another title here, elite doesn`t quite do it it seems, `Otherworldly` should trim the list down a bit , doesn`t include Prost, Senna or Schumacher.......

farm

82 posts

24 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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Top of all sports there comes a point/level where one is not thinking it just happens and cannot be accurately recalled

cgt2

2,343 posts

160 months

Tuesday 23rd November
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I was lucky enough to be at Donington in 1993. If that wasn't greatness I don't know what else could define the term.

sparta6

2,926 posts

72 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
cgt2 said:
I was lucky enough to be at Donington in 1993. If that wasn't greatness I don't know what else could define the term.
^^this^^

eps

5,672 posts

241 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
and the ability to 'move forward' from a bad round/race/match.. They seem to digest and improve, not dwell and keep on going back over the error.

Muzzer79

5,663 posts

159 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
cgt2 said:
I was lucky enough to be at Donington in 1993. If that wasn't greatness I don't know what else could define the term.
There's little doubt that is an example. The problem is correlating an individual performance with the corresponding variables to another's performance and those variables.

Put simply, not all wet races are equal.

However, you could also cite

Silverstone 2008
Catalunya 1996
Nurburgring 1968

As other examples.

InformationSuperHighway

4,522 posts

156 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I think it's a pretty easy definition.

You can argue about the bully boys all day long, but for me, that automatically counts them out.

Amazing drivers yes... but those that didn't have to resort to aggression puts them a step above.

For me... Hamilton. Genuinely the greatest of all time on the track (No comment on off track)

LukeBrown66

1,473 posts

18 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I have listened to stuff abotu Alain from engineers, designers etc.

Honestly some of the things he did to make his race day car better than anyone's was out of this world, it is literally all he was interested in.

All toip drivers did this, Stewart too, the two types of driving are not the same, but they can both achieve greatness.

But watching a Senna, Mansell go flying into a huge lead and then after half distance you would start to see Fastest Lap, Prost, then again and again, it was genius at work for me, and he would often win in this races. Fir me he was a class above anyone in his day which for me was about 83=90.

mick987

737 posts

82 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
cgt2 said:
I was lucky enough to be at Donington in 1993. If that wasn't greatness I don't know what else could define the term.
Was not a fan of Senna back in the day, but quite frankly anybody who watched that race cannot say Senna is nothing but one of the greatest drivers of all time if not the greatest

DodgyGeezer

28,971 posts

162 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
What separates? Maybe a lack of imagination?

I'm sure I recall reading an article about Moss many years ago who just didn't have the same pace after his off - he was (painfully) aware of the risks in a way he wasn't before

Schermerhorn

4,170 posts

161 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
hot metal said:
Bo_apex said:
Unworthy according to who ?
Me, and plenty of others, he would not have got far in the days of Fangio or Clark, or today it would seem.
Really?

You really reckon a Chubby Chubster like Fangio could even fit in a modern F1 car let alone keep up with someone like Senna, Prost, Schumacher and the like?


Edited by Schermerhorn on Tuesday 23 November 17:14

Cheib

20,843 posts

147 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
I heard David Coulthard talk recently….he said what separates good from great drivers is braking and corner entry. Males total sense when you think about it….getting the braking point right is the hardest thing (for me anyway) ability doing a track day and you can only nail a great line through the corner if you’ve got the entry right.

entropy

4,357 posts

175 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Fully agree with consistency.

Consistently quick, consistently extracting as much or every ounce of performance out of their given machinery that appears preternatural.

My basic criteria: dominant wins with the best car, wins in slightly lesser cars, podiums in expected upper-midfield performance car.

eps

5,672 posts

241 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
I have listened to stuff abotu Alain from engineers, designers etc.

Honestly some of the things he did to make his race day car better than anyone's was out of this world, it is literally all he was interested in.

All toip drivers did this, Stewart too, the two types of driving are not the same, but they can both achieve greatness.

But watching a Senna, Mansell go flying into a huge lead and then after half distance you would start to see Fastest Lap, Prost, then again and again, it was genius at work for me, and he would often win in this races. Fir me he was a class above anyone in his day which for me was about 83=90.
You could say quite similar things about Lauda as well.

DodgyGeezer

28,971 posts

162 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Really?

You really reckon a Chubby Chubster like Fangio could even fit in a modern F1 car let alone keep up with someone like Senna, Prost, Schumacher and the like?


Edited by Schermerhorn on Tuesday 23 November 17:14
you could equally argue can you imagine a modern driver having to drive the crude and unsafe cars of then?

cgt2

2,343 posts

160 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
I have listened to stuff abotu Alain from engineers, designers etc.

Honestly some of the things he did to make his race day car better than anyone's was out of this world, it is literally all he was interested in.

All toip drivers did this, Stewart too, the two types of driving are not the same, but they can both achieve greatness.

But watching a Senna, Mansell go flying into a huge lead and then after half distance you would start to see Fastest Lap, Prost, then again and again, it was genius at work for me, and he would often win in this races. Fir me he was a class above anyone in his day which for me was about 83=90.
It's also often forgotten that despite his four championships, he was in firm contention for at least four more until right at the end of the season. 1990 was a particularly amazing season. I liked Prost and Senna for different reasons, incredible that we got to witness them head to head for several seasons.

cgt2

2,343 posts

160 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
eps said:
You could say quite similar things about Lauda as well.
1984 when he beat Prost by half a point was a fantastic season!

Schermerhorn

4,170 posts

161 months

Tuesday 23rd November
quotequote all
DodgyGeezer said:
Schermerhorn said:
Really?

You really reckon a Chubby Chubster like Fangio could even fit in a modern F1 car let alone keep up with someone like Senna, Prost, Schumacher and the like?


Edited by Schermerhorn on Tuesday 23 November 17:14
you could equally argue can you imagine a modern driver having to drive the crude and unsafe cars of then?
I'd put my money on a fit athlete than a fat bloke to drive a car faster.

hot metal

1,589 posts

165 months

Wednesday 24th November
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
I have listened to stuff abotu Alain from engineers, designers etc.

Honestly some of the things he did to make his race day car better than anyone's was out of this world, it is literally all he was interested in.

All toip drivers did this, Stewart too, the two types of driving are not the same, but they can both achieve greatness.

But watching a Senna, Mansell go flying into a huge lead and then after half distance you would start to see Fastest Lap, Prost, then again and again, it was genius at work for me, and he would often win in this races. Fir me he was a class above anyone in his day which for me was about 83=90.
Unless it rained ...