Mercedes problem!
Discussion
Byker28i said:
Red bull have an issue with their fuel system. The thought is they are doing something clever with it to give them added performance at given times, maybe storing extra fuel somewhere past the meter, thats got airlocked, or failed?
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Ferrari's secret deal with the FIA isn't there an extra fuel meter to prevent this sort of thing happening?entropy said:
Byker28i said:
Red bull have an issue with their fuel system. The thought is they are doing something clever with it to give them added performance at given times, maybe storing extra fuel somewhere past the meter, thats got airlocked, or failed?
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Ferrari's secret deal with the FIA isn't there an extra fuel meter to prevent this sort of thing happening?//j17 said:
entropy said:
Byker28i said:
Red bull have an issue with their fuel system. The thought is they are doing something clever with it to give them added performance at given times, maybe storing extra fuel somewhere past the meter, thats got airlocked, or failed?
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Ferrari's secret deal with the FIA isn't there an extra fuel meter to prevent this sort of thing happening?Didn't the Fuel Flow Meter have problems due to the fuel that Red Bull were using when it was introduced?
There are also limits as to how much now can be stored in the fuel lines past the FFM. There was talk of routing power lines from the hybryd system so to disrupt the signal from the FFM, meaning it read less. It's assumed this is what Ferrari were doing but as the FIA kept that secret...
So we get a second FFM, which is encrypted, but we all know those F1 engineers are very clever people. Remember it was Red Bull asking the questions about Ferrari and providing details.
It's all speculation at the moment, but it seems Red Bull are doing something different with the fuel system that other teams aren't.
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 21st April 08:03
Byker28i said:
It's all speculation at the moment, but it seems Red Bull are doing something different with the fuel system that other teams aren't.
Maybe. Or maybe in the same way I'd bet the only difference between Ferrari and the other teams was that rather than being the only ones 'innovating' they were just the ones who got caught, in this case it's just Red Bull are having issues getting their 'innovation' working that other teams aren't.Byker28i said:
//j17 said:
entropy said:
Byker28i said:
Red bull have an issue with their fuel system. The thought is they are doing something clever with it to give them added performance at given times, maybe storing extra fuel somewhere past the meter, thats got airlocked, or failed?
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Ferrari's secret deal with the FIA isn't there an extra fuel meter to prevent this sort of thing happening?Didn't the Fuel Flow Meter have problems due to the fuel that Red Bull were using when it was introduced?
There are also limits as to how much now can be stored in the fuel lines past the FFM. There was talk of routing power lines from the hybryd system so to disrupt the signal from the FFM, meaning it read less. It's assumed this is what Ferrari were doing but as the FIA kept that secret...
So we get a second FFM, which is encrypted, but we all know those F1 engineers are very clever people. Remember it was Red Bull asking the questions about Ferrari and providing details.
It's all speculation at the moment, but it seems Red Bull are doing something different with the fuel system that other teams aren't.
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 21st April 08:03
jimPH said:
Byker28i said:
//j17 said:
entropy said:
Byker28i said:
Red bull have an issue with their fuel system. The thought is they are doing something clever with it to give them added performance at given times, maybe storing extra fuel somewhere past the meter, thats got airlocked, or failed?
Correct me if I'm wrong but after Ferrari's secret deal with the FIA isn't there an extra fuel meter to prevent this sort of thing happening?Didn't the Fuel Flow Meter have problems due to the fuel that Red Bull were using when it was introduced?
There are also limits as to how much now can be stored in the fuel lines past the FFM. There was talk of routing power lines from the hybryd system so to disrupt the signal from the FFM, meaning it read less. It's assumed this is what Ferrari were doing but as the FIA kept that secret...
So we get a second FFM, which is encrypted, but we all know those F1 engineers are very clever people. Remember it was Red Bull asking the questions about Ferrari and providing details.
It's all speculation at the moment, but it seems Red Bull are doing something different with the fuel system that other teams aren't.
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 21st April 08:03
I think the Ferrari system stored fuel after the fuel flow meter when off throttle, to increase on throttle flow. It's now prevented by a meter at the engine.
RB have said it the vibrations caused the last problem, now fixed (which the Imola result backs up). I'm not seeing any major power advantage for the RBs, if anything the Ferrari looks a bit stronger.
RB have said it the vibrations caused the last problem, now fixed (which the Imola result backs up). I'm not seeing any major power advantage for the RBs, if anything the Ferrari looks a bit stronger.
rdjohn said:
Mercedes problems, have they been fixed? I cant find any reports on that issue
They have bought new front and rear wings to Miami, first major upgrades of the season. https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/152264191837...
“Clever twist on the #F1 front wing rules, as Merc modify the entire outer section of front wing.
The way the elements transitioninto the endplate is unique, creating a smaller endplate surface. Creating less outwash IMO”
Dunit said:
Surely it's time for them to give up on this current setup? Could they not bring the original spec as well for direct comparison for Lewis to use in Spain as he is lower placed?
Or is there a ruling to say both cars have to be the same?
If the launch spec worked better or had more potential than their current spec, I'm sure we would've seen it or parts of it since pre-season testing.Or is there a ruling to say both cars have to be the same?
Mercedes presumably see something in this design direction, as did Mclaren and Williams. I bet it'll be a front runner by the end of the season, and I bet it'll pay dividends from 2023-2025.
Are they even in a position to do that? Did the car that ran at the first “test” actually get crash tested and scrutineered and/or any other prerequisite steps that are needed before it can run in an official event?
Genuine question - I don’t what is actually required but I seem to recall that first test had some special “not-really-a-test” status.
Genuine question - I don’t what is actually required but I seem to recall that first test had some special “not-really-a-test” status.
tertius said:
Are they even in a position to do that? Did the car that ran at the first “test” actually get crash tested and scrutineered and/or any other prerequisite steps that are needed before it can run in an official event?
Genuine question - I don’t what is actually required but I seem to recall that first test had some special “not-really-a-test” status.
It's the same car just with different body work so all the crash test carbon structures are in the same place so theoretically shouldn't have an issue being entered. Genuine question - I don’t what is actually required but I seem to recall that first test had some special “not-really-a-test” status.
honda_exige said:
tertius said:
Are they even in a position to do that? Did the car that ran at the first “test” actually get crash tested and scrutineered and/or any other prerequisite steps that are needed before it can run in an official event?
Genuine question - I don’t what is actually required but I seem to recall that first test had some special “not-really-a-test” status.
It's the same car just with different body work so all the crash test carbon structures are in the same place so theoretically shouldn't have an issue being entered. Genuine question - I don’t what is actually required but I seem to recall that first test had some special “not-really-a-test” status.
I don't think it was ever supposed to see a competitive session- it was a generic bodywork so that they could get some of the early mule work done whilst keeping more extreme launch design under wraps for an extra week or two until the 'official' test. There may have been very little work done on the shakedown spec bodywork from a performance standpoint.
In any case, they now have three months of in-season development and learning, plus full view of everybody else's car. There is not a chance that they can achieve better performance than they currently have by going back to January spec. If that's the case, what have they been doing for three months?
It's worth remembering that everybody else is not standing still. Mercedes have improved their car but so far their performance relative to others has remained about the same (on average, 3rd best car overall- never 2nd, sometimes 4th...)
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