Pants and nose rings and driver safety

Pants and nose rings and driver safety

Author
Discussion

Evercross

4,048 posts

41 months

Monday 9th May
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I always thought it was a bit odd that the rules regarding jewellery and watches (which AFAIWAW have been in place for decades) had been allowed to slip of late. Seeing a driver being handed a product-placement watch at the race end before he had stood on the scales was IMO a no-no for the obvious implication of potentially compensating for an underweight car?

As for the piercing - as someone said, if Hamilton as an issue with them closing up then wear plastic sleepers for the duration of the race. There is a safe and sensible solution there, so for him to make a stand on this is power play. The FIA should call his bluff and exclude him for being a prat and we'll see what he has to say about it.

Clockwork Cupcake

69,215 posts

249 months

Monday 9th May
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Tyre Smoke said:
The irony here being that he was complaining about rules not being enforced last year to such an extent that this year they are enforcing all the rules black and white with no grey areas open to interpretation.
Right. So it is a petty little revenge thing on Hamilton then, since he is the one most affected.

Evercross said:
As for the piercing - as someone said, if Hamilton as an issue with them closing up then wear plastic sleepers for the duration of the race.
You clearly have no clue about piercings rofl

We're not talking about earrings that can easily removed and replaced. Hell, I take my earrings out before putting on a lid - no problems there. Be silly not to. We're talking about a nose ring and septum piercings, both of which are designed to stay in permanently and can't be easily self-removed.

Given the nature of these semi-permanent piercings, it *is* mandating how someone looks as it effectively means they can't be worn for the entire race weekend.

And, as I said, if the only person's safety that is being compromised is their own then what exactly is the problem here?

TypeRTim

605 posts

71 months

Monday 9th May
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Didn't take long for last year to get brought up, did it?! haha!

The FIA have had a big reshuffle to try to ensure the governance is more 'on point' and the rules are followed to the letter. That is what everyone was complaining about last year, after all. That the rules had been interpreted as something not akin to what was written to allow for a certain result to happen. So now, they are trying to enforce all of the rules as best they can.

Lewis should never have gotten the piercings tbh. He knows the rules, he knew the rules when he got them. He should therefore have known that racing with them still in place was against the rules. It is proven that the rule is there for safety reasons. He just saw that they weren't enforced and so carried on. Now, that decision has come back to bite him.

It isn't petty, it's the FIA recalibrating after being called out and trying to do better. People deem it as petty because LH is one of the only ones affected by it, so they deem it as targetting.

I would be having strong words with both Seb and Lewis for their actions for making them seem like they are bigger than the sport if I were heading up the FIA. But then, I'm not and the world is probably a better place for it!

JoelH

75 posts

7 months

Monday 9th May
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Clockwork Cupcake said:
And, as I said, if the only person's safety that is being compromised is their own then what exactly is the problem here?
Because that is never a valid argument. It's the sport as a whole that looks bad not the individual when things go wrong. Perception is more important than reality in many walks of life.

As many have said Hamilton knew the rules before he had those piercings.

Gnits

878 posts

178 months

Monday 9th May
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I can understand the health and safety element and if there was a nasty event you would not want to put them in an MRI.
There are plenty of other safer materials about that could be used as an alternative for a nose piercing such as wood, plastic or bone... although I think suggesting using bone might cause a different discussion.

angrymoby

1,835 posts

155 months

Monday 9th May
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Gnits said:
I can understand the health and safety element and if there was a nasty event you would not want to put them in an MRI.
There are plenty of other safer materials about that could be used as an alternative for a nose piercing such as wood, plastic or bone... although I think suggesting using bone might cause a different discussion.
Titanium jewellry is both MRI safe & poor at conducting heat ...& the FIA would know this, so surprised it wasn't advocated as a compromise by them

Clockwork Cupcake

69,215 posts

249 months

Monday 9th May
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angrymoby said:
Titanium jewellry is both MRI safe & poor at conducting heat ...& the FIA would know this, so surprised it wasn't advocated as a compromise by them
Indeed. Plus Lewis has already confirmed that his non-removable piercings are MRI safe and that he has indeed even had MRI scans whilst wearing them.

DanMalkin

33 posts

65 months

Monday 9th May
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However the FIA are promoting an individual safety issue above a collective one.
On the one hand, personal jewellery etc cannot be worn as it may affect individual driver safety..

On the other, the drivers complain about a dangerous track surface and lack of tec-pro in areas where there is a ‘likelihood’ of mistakes or crashes and the FIA choose to ignore this.

In the hierarchy of risk in any industry- collective measures take precedence over individual. So, the FIA are somewhat hypocritical on the point of safety.

a_dreamer

1,528 posts

14 months

Monday 9th May
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DanMalkin said:
However the FIA are promoting an individual safety issue above a collective one.
On the one hand, personal jewellery etc cannot be worn as it may affect individual driver safety..

On the other, the drivers complain about a dangerous track surface and lack of tec-pro in areas where there is a ‘likelihood’ of mistakes or crashes and the FIA choose to ignore this.

In the hierarchy of risk in any industry- collective measures take precedence over individual. So, the FIA are somewhat hypocritical on the point of safety.
well not exactly. Yes they should do more but this is a rule they have not just made. They are just asking that all rules now be followed

One could argue that Hamilton saying he will speak to authorities on this one, rather than on the collective is also idiotic.

Also, one is far easier to resolve. Take nose ring out, or choose to wear it and not compete.

Evercross

4,048 posts

41 months

Monday 9th May
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Clockwork Cupcake said:
You clearly have no clue about piercings rofl
You have no idea mate....

Clockwork Cupcake said:
We're not talking about earrings that can easily removed and replaced.
That's a personal choice. The rules have always been there and the fact that a racer made a decision to put themselves in a position where they had to choose between complying with the rules or having a 'permanent' rule breach attached their body is their responsibility.

Clockwork Cupcake said:
Hell, I take my earrings out before putting on a lid - no problems there. Be silly not to.
We share common ground on the issue.

Clockwork Cupcake said:
And, as I said, if the only person's safety that is being compromised is their own then what exactly is the problem here?
There is more to it than that. Medical staff treating the driver have to be 100% sure that there isn't something there they haven't been informed of and have to be allowed to assume they can act a certain way without facing liability. That is why the rules state no body jewellery.

Maybe if there was some sort of declaration/waiver system, but even then it seems that this is about some drivers asserting their 'freedom' so I can't seem them going for such a compromise if it means so much to them, plus could they be trusted to comply?

RB Will

7,921 posts

217 months

Monday 9th May
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Speaking from a sample size of one it sounds a bit BS that he cant take them out for 3 hours a day. One of my best mates had nose piercings as a teen, decided / had to remove them when he joined the police but his party piece years later was that he could still poke things through them, so I can't imagine LH's will seal up in an afternoon.

sparta6

3,146 posts

77 months

Monday 9th May
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TypeRTim said:
Didn't take long for last year to get brought up, did it?! haha!

The FIA have had a big reshuffle to try to ensure the governance is more 'on point' and the rules are followed to the letter. That is what everyone was complaining about last year, after all. That the rules had been interpreted as something not akin to what was written to allow for a certain result to happen. So now, they are trying to enforce all of the rules as best they can.

Lewis should never have gotten the piercings tbh. He knows the rules, he knew the rules when he got them. He should therefore have known that racing with them still in place was against the rules. It is proven that the rule is there for safety reasons. He just saw that they weren't enforced and so carried on. Now, that decision has come back to bite him.

It isn't petty, it's the FIA recalibrating after being called out and trying to do better. People deem it as petty because LH is one of the only ones affected by it, so they deem it as targetting.

I would be having strong words with both Seb and Lewis for their actions for making them seem like they are bigger than the sport if I were heading up the FIA. But then, I'm not and the world is probably a better place for it!
+1

In several areas Todt was lethargic. The new management are tightening things up which is a positive step.

Health & Saftey rules apply equally to everyone. Granting exemptions to certain individuals is bad for any organisation and forms a slippery slope.



Clockwork Cupcake

69,215 posts

249 months

Monday 9th May
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Evercross said:
You have no idea mate....
Ok. Apologies. It was the comment about sleepers that made me think that. Piercings don't close up in a matter of hours.

The issue isn't them healing up during the race, it's because he doesn't want to be seen without them. There isn't the opportunity to put them back in immediately after a race so that means in the immediate post-race interviews he is without them. That's his issue. That and the fact he's being asked to remove something that he wears permanently and he sees that as a big deal.




Cold

12,803 posts

67 months

Monday 9th May
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It's bad luck that the rules about jewellery were introduced after he had collected all of his various piercings.

Tyre Smoke

21,353 posts

238 months

Monday 9th May
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Cold said:
It's bad luck that the rules about jewellery were introduced after he had collected all of his various piercings.
Except they weren't. They've just been enforced.

Evercross

4,048 posts

41 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Clockwork Cupcake said:
The issue isn't them healing up during the race, it's because he doesn't want to be seen without them. There isn't the opportunity to put them back in immediately after a race so that means in the immediate post-race interviews he is without them. That's his issue. That and the fact he's being asked to remove something that he wears permanently and he sees that as a big deal.
In response to that I am inclined to say - tough st. This is akin to someone who has been breaking a signposted speed limit for years knowing it wasn't being enforced getting pissy because a speed camera has suddenly been put up.

I've said for years that LH was a manchild and here he is demonstrating exactly that trait. The rules come with the territory, and this stand-off genuinely looks and sounds like him saying he's bigger than the sport.

Seb on the other hand was being funny and irreverent. I genuinely doubt he will have a problem with changing his underwear habits.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 9th May 17:38

Clockwork Cupcake

69,215 posts

249 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Evercross said:
This is akin to someone who has been breaking a signposted speed limit for years knowing it wasn't being enforced getting pissy because a speed camera has suddenly been put up.
It's nothing of the sort. That's a completely invalid comparison.

Evercross said:
I've said for years that LH was a manchild and here he is demonstrating exactly that trait.
I see.

Well, there's clearly no point continuing this discussion with you in that case.

Evercross

4,048 posts

41 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Evercross said:
This is akin to someone who has been breaking a signposted speed limit for years knowing it wasn't being enforced getting pissy because a speed camera has suddenly been put up.
It's nothing of the sort. That's a completely invalid comparison.
It is entirely valid. It is a perfect analogy in fact. Someone knowingly breaks a rule because it isn't being enforced now has to comply because it is being enforced and they don't like that they have to alter behaviour they know was against the rules but they were getting away with.

Explain how it is different....

Clockwork Cupcake said:
Evercross said:
I've said for years that LH was a manchild and here he is demonstrating exactly that trait.
I see.

Well, there's clearly no point continuing this discussion with you in that case.
Childish indeed!

Hamilton's threat to not race, and his three watch comment was toys out the pram stuff. As I said - they should call his bluff and see what happens.

Edited by Evercross on Monday 9th May 17:50

Tyre Smoke

21,353 posts

238 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
I'm with Evercross here. I even noticed Lewis complaining about his tyres seven laps in. Both my son and I had the same thought "getting his excuses in early".

It may just be unfortunate for Lewis that he comes across as a lovely man when it's all going his way and a brat when it isn't. And yes, they are all like that to a greater or lesser extent, but Lewis seems to be the worst offender.

Cold

12,803 posts

67 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Cold said:
It's bad luck that the rules about jewellery were introduced after he had collected all of his various piercings.
Except they weren't. They've just been enforced.
Exactly my point. He knew he would breaking the rules with his various bits of jewellery but went ahead and got them anyway.
Instead of moaning that they now need to be removed he should be grateful that he's got away with having them for so long.
Same with Seb and his pants, but at least he injected some humour into his protest and isn't trying to claim that his Calvin Kleins are now a permanent feature of his body.