Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2022 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 164
Discussion
Teddy Lop said:
C70R said:
Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.
Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
Max had Michael masi as team mate for one of his titles*Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
If you're going to use bottas to slate Lewis - keep in mind that if Merc had utilised bottas the way reb bull utilise [support driver function, current form:] Perez then Lewis would have had last year...
Bottas to Lewis is exactly how Perez to Max is. The difference between the two second drivers is that Bottas had some weekends where his heart clearly wasn't in it, and he didn't put up much of a fight with other teams. To his credit, Perez is a gritty driver and not afraid to drive hard against other teams.
Nevertheless, they both deliver exactly what you need as a second driver. Keep putting in good-enough performances to secure the WCC, don't jeopardise the lead driver, spoil the other teams if you get the chance.
I don't think that's particularly controversial.
C70R said:
Teddy Lop said:
C70R said:
Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.
Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
Max had Michael masi as team mate for one of his titles*Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
If you're going to use bottas to slate Lewis - keep in mind that if Merc had utilised bottas the way reb bull utilise [support driver function, current form:] Perez then Lewis would have had last year...
Bottas to Lewis is exactly how Perez to Max is. The difference between the two second drivers is that Bottas had some weekends where his heart clearly wasn't in it, and he didn't put up much of a fight with other teams. To his credit, Perez is a gritty driver and not afraid to drive hard against other teams.
Nevertheless, they both deliver exactly what you need as a second driver. Keep putting in good-enough performances to secure the WCC, don't jeopardise the lead driver, spoil the other teams if you get the chance.
I don't think that's particularly controversial.
Perez is not bottas equivalent. Bottas on the whole was left to drive his drive. Sure he was used to help Lewis 10% of the time at later stages but Perez on the other hand from the word go is there for one purpose and that’s to help max.
C70R said:
Am I missing something? The RB car is an absolute monster at the moment. Sure Max is a talented driver, but it's not just down to him. The team have given him an absolute rocketship underneath him.
In terms of this and cakewalking, just had a look back and the only thing stopping Hamilton absolutely walking 2014-16 was Rosberg. That Merc was a proper rocketship. Those years they both generally finished 1-2 or on the podium. The two drivers were 100 points ahead of 3rd, the team 300 points clear.
RB are not even 1-2 this year, some of Max’s wins have been by less than a second.
Hamilton / Rosberg were regularly finishing 25+ seconds clear, that is about what Max’s best win to date has been but that is the outlier for him.
I mean look at this!!
If Hamilton had a Bottas or Perez with him then he would have been winning with about 8 races left I reckon
Chamon_Lee said:
C70R said:
Teddy Lop said:
C70R said:
Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.
Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
Max had Michael masi as team mate for one of his titles*Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
If you're going to use bottas to slate Lewis - keep in mind that if Merc had utilised bottas the way reb bull utilise [support driver function, current form:] Perez then Lewis would have had last year...
Bottas to Lewis is exactly how Perez to Max is. The difference between the two second drivers is that Bottas had some weekends where his heart clearly wasn't in it, and he didn't put up much of a fight with other teams. To his credit, Perez is a gritty driver and not afraid to drive hard against other teams.
Nevertheless, they both deliver exactly what you need as a second driver. Keep putting in good-enough performances to secure the WCC, don't jeopardise the lead driver, spoil the other teams if you get the chance.
I don't think that's particularly controversial.
Perez is not bottas equivalent. Bottas on the whole was left to drive his drive. Sure he was used to help Lewis 10% of the time at later stages but Perez on the other hand from the word go is there for one purpose and that’s to help max.
Tbh I think the ethos at Merc gets the best out of both drivers, it's the same ethos that runs throughout the team and with good results.
Does anyone know if there was a Ted's Notebook for qualifying and the race? I've noticed that my box didn't record the race one and the allocated slot for the quali one had other stuff due to the delays from the support races.
I've had a look on the Sky Sports F1 YT channel and they've not uploaded them there either as yet.
I've had a look on the Sky Sports F1 YT channel and they've not uploaded them there either as yet.
RB Will said:
In terms of this and cakewalking, just had a look back and the only thing stopping Hamilton absolutely walking 2014-16 was Rosberg. That Merc was a proper rocketship.
Those years they both generally finished 1-2 or on the podium. The two drivers were 100 points ahead of 3rd, the team 300 points clear.
RB are not even 1-2 this year, some of Max’s wins have been by less than a second.
Hamilton / Rosberg were regularly finishing 25+ seconds clear, that is about what Max’s best win to date has been but that is the outlier for him.
I mean look at this!!
If Hamilton had a Bottas or Perez with him then he would have been winning with about 8 races left I reckon
I see that in 2014 Nico took 5 wins off Lewis, in 2015 he took 9 wins from him. Between end of '15 beginning of '16 Nico beat Lewis in 7 races straight.Those years they both generally finished 1-2 or on the podium. The two drivers were 100 points ahead of 3rd, the team 300 points clear.
RB are not even 1-2 this year, some of Max’s wins have been by less than a second.
Hamilton / Rosberg were regularly finishing 25+ seconds clear, that is about what Max’s best win to date has been but that is the outlier for him.
I mean look at this!!
If Hamilton had a Bottas or Perez with him then he would have been winning with about 8 races left I reckon
Max will never have a team mate like that, I don't reckon, not at RB anyway.
Chamon_Lee said:
C70R said:
Teddy Lop said:
C70R said:
Lewis had Bottas as a teammate for four of his titles, and comfortably the best car.
Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
Max had Michael masi as team mate for one of his titles*Max is benefiting from an exceptional car this season, but let's not rewrite history here.
If you're going to use bottas to slate Lewis - keep in mind that if Merc had utilised bottas the way reb bull utilise [support driver function, current form:] Perez then Lewis would have had last year...
Bottas to Lewis is exactly how Perez to Max is. The difference between the two second drivers is that Bottas had some weekends where his heart clearly wasn't in it, and he didn't put up much of a fight with other teams. To his credit, Perez is a gritty driver and not afraid to drive hard against other teams.
Nevertheless, they both deliver exactly what you need as a second driver. Keep putting in good-enough performances to secure the WCC, don't jeopardise the lead driver, spoil the other teams if you get the chance.
I don't think that's particularly controversial.
Perez is not bottas equivalent. Bottas on the whole was left to drive his drive. Sure he was used to help Lewis 10% of the time at later stages but Perez on the other hand from the word go is there for one purpose and that’s to help max.
Bottas regularly ran alternate strategies and pitted to cover off things like competitor undercuts. He was a much better wingman than he generally gets credit for, and that's largely because he lacks Perez's defensive bite.
You don't need to be wearing "blinkers" to remember that...
RB Will said:
C70R said:
Am I missing something? The RB car is an absolute monster at the moment. Sure Max is a talented driver, but it's not just down to him. The team have given him an absolute rocketship underneath him.
In terms of this and cakewalking, just had a look back and the only thing stopping Hamilton absolutely walking 2014-16 was Rosberg. That Merc was a proper rocketship. Those years they both generally finished 1-2 or on the podium. The two drivers were 100 points ahead of 3rd, the team 300 points clear.
RB are not even 1-2 this year, some of Max’s wins have been by less than a second.
Hamilton / Rosberg were regularly finishing 25+ seconds clear, that is about what Max’s best win to date has been but that is the outlier for him.
I mean look at this!!
If Hamilton had a Bottas or Perez with him then he would have been winning with about 8 races left I reckon
To see how ridiculously dominant this driver/car combination is, you need only look at Belgium and Italy this season. The package was so untouchable that it largely didn't matter which strategy the team ran or where they started on the grid. Utterly dominant.
Which "some" of Max's wins this year have been by less than a second?
heebeegeetee said:
RB Will said:
In terms of this and cakewalking, just had a look back and the only thing stopping Hamilton absolutely walking 2014-16 was Rosberg. That Merc was a proper rocketship.
Those years they both generally finished 1-2 or on the podium. The two drivers were 100 points ahead of 3rd, the team 300 points clear.
RB are not even 1-2 this year, some of Max’s wins have been by less than a second.
Hamilton / Rosberg were regularly finishing 25+ seconds clear, that is about what Max’s best win to date has been but that is the outlier for him.
I mean look at this!!
If Hamilton had a Bottas or Perez with him then he would have been winning with about 8 races left I reckon
I see that in 2014 Nico took 5 wins off Lewis, in 2015 he took 9 wins from him. Between end of '15 beginning of '16 Nico beat Lewis in 7 races straight.Those years they both generally finished 1-2 or on the podium. The two drivers were 100 points ahead of 3rd, the team 300 points clear.
RB are not even 1-2 this year, some of Max’s wins have been by less than a second.
Hamilton / Rosberg were regularly finishing 25+ seconds clear, that is about what Max’s best win to date has been but that is the outlier for him.
I mean look at this!!
If Hamilton had a Bottas or Perez with him then he would have been winning with about 8 races left I reckon
Max will never have a team mate like that, I don't reckon, not at RB anyway.
When Max wants to get a gap, often he can bang out lap after lap at XX seconds per lap quicker than his rivals.
PhilAsia said:
Not well thought through, as clearly, if you are flat out racing a team mate you are not slowing down and coasting to a victory to save engines etc...
When Max wants to get a gap, often he can bang out lap after lap at XX seconds per lap quicker than his rivals.
I had thought this but I’m not sure if Max has the potential you think, he was struggling for wins early in the season and still now being out qualified. When Max wants to get a gap, often he can bang out lap after lap at XX seconds per lap quicker than his rivals.
To answer C70, Saudi he won by 0.5 sec, At Canada by 0.9. These are not margins you work with if you are able to bang out a second or so a lap
kambites said:
C70R said:
While it's fairly obvious that other teams haven't been as consistent, the Max/RB package is one of the outstanding combinations we've ever seen in F1.
As was Hamilton/Mercedes over the last ten years or whatever it was. It's not like the other teams weren't trying, they just couldn't compete at the same level. The truly remarkable thing about the Mercedes/Hamilton combination wasn't the level of their dominance but the period it spanned. It will be interesting to see if Redbull/Verstappan can manage the same, it's hard to bet against them with the advantage they have at the moment.
Edited by kambites on Monday 12th September 16:36
The pendulum has swung back to Red Bull, but Max hasn't won a 2nd title yet although I'm sure he will win this one - instead of being gifted it - but that's still only two!
ColdSyphon said:
Does anyone know if there was a Ted's Notebook for qualifying and the race? I've noticed that my box didn't record the race one and the allocated slot for the quali one had other stuff due to the delays from the support races.
I've had a look on the Sky Sports F1 YT channel and they've not uploaded them there either as yet.
No, I did hear them say they would limit coverage due to the Queen's death and Ted's notebook was one of the things to go.I've had a look on the Sky Sports F1 YT channel and they've not uploaded them there either as yet.
kambites said:
C70R said:
One thing that is true is that Max may have wrapped up a WDC win faster than Lewis ever did, which is testament to a phenomenal car and driver combination.
And to Ferrari's incompetence. 
but 
The points lost by the Ferrari team through retirements and strategy f
k ups, and Leclerc a few times, would put them a decent gap ahead of Verstappen. The car advantage Red Bull have is nowhere near a gap that would put Max where he is over 100 points ahead with the possibility of the WDC in Singapore, the Ferrari and Red Bull have probably been near equal a few times through the year. It should have been a much closer fight. If Mercedes had the pace in their car this year that Ferrari have had I think they would be right up there with Red Bull. It's all ifs, buts and maybes though, this year is what it is and it went Red Bull's way.TDK-C60 said:
Byker28i said:
Has a quick skim, did we find out why Bottas etc sat behind the safety car and didn't unlap?
I've been wondering that. The tape of AT telling Tsunoda ..
"Horner wants you to pretend you haven't understood the unlap yourself instruction for 2 more laps, should be fine as we're got the director to put the safety car in front of Russel - and not let him and 11 cars pass for a while - plus Verstappen is going to take ages to get back around the the SC so should run out of time nicely. We will pretend to be gutted we didn't do the "this is a motor race" thing at the end"
...has not surfaced, so presumably didn't happen.
it's joke, relax
Username checks out
It's more likely the discussion around the race director - "how can we get this right and now mess up like before. May be if we..."
C70R said:
ajprice said:
but The points lost by the Ferrari team through retirements and strategy f
k ups, and Leclerc a few times, would put them a decent gap ahead of Verstappen. They have CLC 125 points down on where he could have been.
Of course if they had all these points they would have been reducing Max's score too so CLC should be ahead.
That video is a month old too so probably more to add in to it.
RB Will said:
C70R said:
ajprice said:
but The points lost by the Ferrari team through retirements and strategy f
k ups, and Leclerc a few times, would put them a decent gap ahead of Verstappen. They have CLC 125 points down on where he could have been.
Of course if they had all these points they would have been reducing Max's score too so CLC should be ahead.
That video is a month old too so probably more to add in to it.
RB Will said:
WTF1 did a video on it, check Youtube. They worked out Ferrari have lost 37 points due to bad strategy, 80 from car failures and 54 from driver error.
They have CLC 125 points down on where he could have been.
Of course if they had all these points they would have been reducing Max's score too so CLC should be ahead.
That video is a month old too so probably more to add in to it.
You'd have to do the whatiferry for Max though as well surely? I suspect that would put him back in front again.They have CLC 125 points down on where he could have been.
Of course if they had all these points they would have been reducing Max's score too so CLC should be ahead.
That video is a month old too so probably more to add in to it.
Actually taking all the team or technical DNF's out for everyone on the grid would give a good idea of driver performance.
You could make a new driver and team WC for every year ever doing this probably.
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Tuesday 13th September 12:32
dunc_sx said:
RB Will said:
WTF1 did a video on it, check Youtube. They worked out Ferrari have lost 37 points due to bad strategy, 80 from car failures and 54 from driver error.
They have CLC 125 points down on where he could have been.
Of course if they had all these points they would have been reducing Max's score too so CLC should be ahead.
That video is a month old too so probably more to add in to it.
You'd have to do the whatiferry for Max though as well surely? I suspect that would put him back in front again.They have CLC 125 points down on where he could have been.
Of course if they had all these points they would have been reducing Max's score too so CLC should be ahead.
That video is a month old too so probably more to add in to it.
Actually taking all the team or technical DNF's out for everyone on the grid would give a good idea of driver performance.
You could make a new driver and team WC for every year ever doing this probably.
Dunc.
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