Porsche Pull Out Of red Bull Collaboration

Porsche Pull Out Of red Bull Collaboration

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Discussion

classicfred

Original Poster:

306 posts

61 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
According to the BBC deal is off.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/62850221

HTP99

20,539 posts

124 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
Never understood what was in it for Porsche, they hardly need the exposure.

thegreenhell

11,761 posts

203 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
It's not a surprise, really, is it. Two VAG brands coming in at the same time never made sense, and there isn't really room for that many different manufacturers with only ten teams.

Now we just await Audi's withdrawal and their excuses for not following through with their plans.

FourGears

199 posts

39 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
I wonder who Porsche will approach next?

M3ax

1,261 posts

196 months

Friday 9th September
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Williams?

thegreenhell

11,761 posts

203 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
FourGears said:
I wonder who Porsche will approach next?
Porsche need an engine partner because they don't have the capacity to make their own. That was why they were trying to go with Red Bull.

No other F1 manufacturer or team will offer them that ability.

entropy

4,952 posts

187 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
FourGears said:
I wonder who Porsche will approach next?
I think the question his who else will RBR look to link up with. Making your own PUs from scratch is a massive undertaking for a non-automotive/engineering company even with a bit of help from Honda.

No great surprise how things panned out. What is interesting is that Mateschitz was fully in favour of the tie-up whereas the rest of RBR were not.

Shades of Williams-BMW, McLaren-Mercedes. Teams wanting independence from manufacturers.

RBR have played the threatening-to-leave card in the past decade. Horner, et. al. want to be in F1 for the long haul, but methinks Dieter wants a convenient exit strategy.

Finlandese

496 posts

159 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
Welcome the 2024 Red Bull - Alfa Romeo! :-)

freedman

4,894 posts

191 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
Never understood what was in it for Porsche, they hardly need the exposure.
$$$


Jinba Ittai

518 posts

75 months

Friday 9th September
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Aren't Renault selling off their engine division? I'm sure I have read that somewhere? Perhaps Porsche can partner with someone like Aramco, collaborate on a new engine and then supply Andretti?

mat205125

17,043 posts

197 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
Is this a "Ford & Ferrari" situation?

Which party didn't understand what they were getting into (or out of) for the deal?

Did one of the players move their goalposts or requirements.

mat205125

17,043 posts

197 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
FourGears said:
I wonder who Porsche will approach next?
Porsche need an engine partner because they don't have the capacity to make their own. That was why they were trying to go with Red Bull.

No other F1 manufacturer or team will offer them that ability.
Only Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and Alpine are manufacturer teams, with their engines made "in house", however Alpine doesn't really count in that respect as despite ownership, the powertrain is still Dieppe, and the team is still "the Enstone team" at heart.

Everything I've seen so far led me to believe that the Porsche and Audi entries were very separate, and the immediate intention wasn't to be sharing engines and parts.

Would they set up their own team in Germany, using variations of the Audi engines?

SturdyHSV

9,490 posts

151 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
entropy said:
I think the question his who else will RBR look to link up with. Making your own PUs from scratch is a massive undertaking for a non-automotive/engineering company even with a bit of help from Honda.
They're not pulling staff off the fizzy drinks line in Austria and asking them to figure out how an engine works... I'd wager RBPT don't need to link up with anyone, if there isn't a beneficial partnership to be made, then they'll go it alone, they've already fired up the first engine as CH said on a Sky interview last week.

Olivera

5,891 posts

223 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Porsche need an engine partner because they don't have the capacity to make their own. That was why they were trying to go with Red Bull.
Porsche don't have the capacity to make their own PU, but Audi do have the capacity?

thegreenhell

11,761 posts

203 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
Olivera said:
thegreenhell said:
Porsche need an engine partner because they don't have the capacity to make their own. That was why they were trying to go with Red Bull.
Porsche don't have the capacity to make their own PU, but Audi do have the capacity?
That is the reason they gave for wanting to partner with RB Powertrains, because they did not have the facilities to make an engine inhouse and not enough time to start from scratch before the new regs start.

Audi have reportedly been working on it for some time already, as have Red Bull and probably all of the other PU manufacturers. Anyone starting from scratch now will be at an immediate disadvantage.

DanielSan

18,186 posts

151 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
Jinba Ittai said:
Aren't Renault selling off their engine division? I'm sure I have read that somewhere? Perhaps Porsche can partner with someone like Aramco, collaborate on a new engine and then supply Andretti?
There was a rumour circling about an Aston Martin engine that was going to be funded by Aramco. It seems to have gone quiet recently though.

entropy

4,952 posts

187 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
SturdyHSV said:
They're not pulling staff off the fizzy drinks line in Austria and asking them to figure out how an engine works... I'd wager RBPT don't need to link up with anyone, if there isn't a beneficial partnership to be made, then they'll go it alone, they've already fired up the first engine as CH said on a Sky interview last week.
That's the problem. It's a massive undertaking. No independent team in the modern era has gone on to make/develop their own engine. Not even Ron Dennis who preferred to have free engines for McLaren.

Factor in Max on a long contract (if he stays that long) and his remuneration package as well R&D for car and engine. How long can CH keep RBPT going on its own?

thegreenhell

11,761 posts

203 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
entropy said:
That's the problem. It's a massive undertaking. No independent team in the modern era has gone on to make/develop their own engine. Not even Ron Dennis who preferred to have free engines for McLaren.

Factor in Max on a long contract (if he stays that long) and his remuneration package as well R&D for car and engine. How long can CH keep RBPT going on its own?
But with the team budget cap and the new PU budget cap, both of which combined are less than RBR used to spend on a season, they should theoretically be able to do it as long as they can hire the right people to run the technical side. In Ben Hodgkinson (ex head of mechanical at Merc-AMG-HPP) they will hope they have the Newey of engines to lead the PU team.

FourGears

199 posts

39 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Porsche need an engine partner because they don't have the capacity to make their own. That was why they were trying to go with Red Bull.

No other F1 manufacturer or team will offer them that ability.
I see so that is Porsche done with F1 then?

Surely with their knowledge from endurance racing and the simplification of the F1 engines they have a chance?

Fundoreen

3,433 posts

67 months

Friday 9th September
quotequote all
When this plan was hatched the world was very different. They are brave enough to act rather than look out of touch.
People mix up F1 popularity and whats going on in the world.