Top 10 drivers currently in F1

[paulguitar]

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

46 front row starts, 67 podiums.

Possibly the only non-top 10 driver to do so ?

What you are missing is that he was completely obliterated by Hamilton, in the same machinery. Therefore his rating suffers as a result.

So this Top 10 is based on the perfomance gap between team mates ?
Points or raw pace ?
Reliability or luck ?

Bottas was also P2 in the WDC

It's based on all of that and more. Bottas is very fast but was so far off Hamilton in races so often that his reputation suffers as a result.

[Mark-C]

StevieBee said:

Mark-C said:

Anyway the answer to this is Fangio, de Vries, Blundell, Hakkinen, Lombardi, von Trips. Needell, Schumacher (M), Andretti (M), Merzario but I admit I haven't read the Title or any posts on the first three pages

Interesting you went for Needell over Henton there!

If you look at their records Tiff achieved no points in F1 in far less races than Brian did ... much more efficient ....

[KaraK]

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

No Bottas ?

He beat all the other teams when at Mercedes.

But was humiliated by Hamilton.

As he should be, Valteri not a top 10 driver

So that's why he is not on the list?

46 front row starts, 67 podiums.

Possibly the only non-top 10 driver to do so ?

The thing with Bottas is not that he doesn't have the raw speed, he clearly does and his qualifying record backs that up. He's got 20 pole positions, and what's more he achieved the vast majority of them while teammates with the driver who has the most pole positions ever. But raw speed isn't enough.

The problems come on Sunday - which is unfortunately the day that counts. His racecraft is spotty, which was exacerbated during the last regs when following was so difficult, when out of position due to a grid penalty or similar he would often make very slow progress through the field in a car that was at times significantly faster than those around him. He also seems to disproportionately struggle for pace on heavy fuel loads - there was a pretty consistent pattern when he was at Merc that he would be right on the pace in qualifying only to drop back noticeably during the first half of the race before getting back on to the pace of the leaders in the second half of the race by which time he would have dropped too far back to be in real contention. I don't think it's any coincidence that one of the few times I can remember a truly stellar first few laps from him was Brazil 2021 in the sprint - the car was consequently much lighter and he looked racey from the outset.

I'm sure it wasn't easy being Hamilton's teammate - much like being teammates with Verstappen or Schumacher Snr was back in the day I can imagine it being pretty tough going psychologically. But that's rather the point - being amongst the best in the world isn't easy, if it was it wouldn't mean anything.

Edited by KaraK on Tuesday 20th September 14:40

[MCBrowncoat]

KaraK said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

paulguitar said:

Bo_apex said:

No Bottas ?

He beat all the other teams when at Mercedes.

But was humiliated by Hamilton.

As he should be, Valteri not a top 10 driver

So that's why he is not on the list?

46 front row starts, 67 podiums.

Possibly the only non-top 10 driver to do so ?

The thing with Bottas is not that he doesn't have the raw speed, he clearly does and his qualifying record backs that up. He's got 20 pole positions, and what's more he achieved the vast majority of them while teammates with the driver who has the most pole positions ever. But raw speed isn't enough.

The problems come on Sunday - which is unfortunately the day that counts. His racecraft is spotty, which was exacerbated during the last regs when following was so difficult, when out of position due to a grid penalty or similar he would often make very slow progress through the field in a car that was at times significantly faster than those around him. He also seems to disproportionately struggle for pace on heavy fuel loads - there was a pretty consistent pattern when he was at Merc that he would be right on the pace in qualifying only to drop back noticeably during the first half of the race before getting back on to the pace of the leaders in the second half of the race by which time he would have dropped too far back to be in real contention. I don't think it's any coincidence that one of the few times I can remember a truly stellar first few laps from him was Brazil 2021 in the sprint - the car was consequently much lighter and he looked racey from the outset.

I'm sure it wasn't easy being Hamilton's teammate - much like being teammates with Verstappen or Schumacher Snr was back in the day I can imagine it being pretty tough going psychologically. But that's rather the point - being amongst the best in the world isn't easy, if it was it wouldn't mean anything.

Edited by KaraK on Tuesday 20th September 14:40

I'm not disagreeing with this on the whole, trouble is I can't help but think: But compared to Perez? I'm not so sure. Bottas got three wins in his first season with the best car, Perez had one - and that was Baku which was somewhat gifted after Max's tyre burst.

In the second season, Bottas didn't win at all, and Perez has one so far. They're pretty difficult to split

[Zarco]

Perez is better than Bottas in my book.

He can defend a position for a start.

One of the best in the field at tyre management too.

[MCBrowncoat]

Aaah here's an interesting list just released from The Race to throw more fuel on the fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLmo192QywI

[KaraK]

MCBrowncoat said:

I'm not disagreeing with this on the whole, trouble is I can't help but think: But compared to Perez? I'm not so sure. Bottas got three wins in his first season with the best car, Perez had one - and that was Baku which was somewhat gifted after Max's tyre burst.

In the second season, Bottas didn't win at all, and Perez has one so far. They're pretty difficult to split

He wasn't in my main top-ten ranking since I'd have placed him 11th (just below Perez) but I agree on talent alone they're difficult to separate. While I think Bottas' one-lap pace is better than Checo's I think Perez has the better race-craft and crucially IMO Perez is the better team player. At times Bottas was downright counter-productive in a way that I don't think Perez has been (at least not yet) like I mentioned there's a definite place in F1 for that support role and if you asked me which I'd prefer as a solid number two to a mega #1 such as a Lewis or a Max while seeking to bag both championships I'd pick Perez which is why he made the cut over Bottas for me.

Ironically I think they would actually make a great pairing at a solidly mid-field team, Bottas could pull off some good qualifying performances at tracks where grid position is king to make some results happen and Perez's tire management skills would allow for some left-field strategies that would get results just like he did on more than one occasion for Force India/Racing Point.