Perez, The Elephant in the Room??

Perez, The Elephant in the Room??

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hot metal

Original Poster:

1,895 posts

177 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
Not a great deal being said on here about the possibility Perez cheated in Monaco qualifying, costing Max & Sainz a crack at pole & a possible race win.

It is rumoured he admitted it to Horner & Marko, who then presumably buried it, naughty. Images have appeared online of data showing he jabbed the

throttle twice heading into the corner he spun at. Now either people like Perez too much to highlight this, so obviously I`m a bd or don`t believe it`s

true.

Press has been comparing it to crashgate or Schumacher`s piss poor effort there years ago, not sure, but amazed PH isn`t all over it. Horner should have

some explaining (lying) to do at least.

nikaiyo2

4,174 posts

179 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
I think the main reason it’s not being discussed is that it is clearly utter crap put out by the usual Max apologists, by way of an excuse for his idiotic antics.

If SP did crash on purpose, why crash the way he did and risk damage to the gearbox? He could easily have kissed a wall, stopping the session with no risk.

What did SP gain from the crash? Locking in 3rd on the grid… as opposed to the lowest realistic grid slot of 4th.

I would say there are 2 options either SP cheated against all logic or the rumour is MV social media mates attempting to deflect attention from his idiotic driving.

PhilAsia

2,227 posts

59 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
nikaiyo2 said:
I think the main reason it’s not being discussed is that it is clearly utter crap put out by the usual Max apologists, by way of an excuse for his idiotic antics.

If SP did crash on purpose, why crash the way he did and risk damage to the gearbox? He could easily have kissed a wall, stopping the session with no risk.

What did SP gain from the crash? Locking in 3rd on the grid… as opposed to the lowest realistic grid slot of 4th.

I would say there are 2 options either SP cheated against all logic or the rumour is MV social media mates attempting to deflect attention from his idiotic driving.
It would not make much sense to potentially wreck your engine or trans to keep third when the outcome of a replacement would be a grid drop.

Chamon_Lee

3,295 posts

131 months

Wednesday 16th November
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I agree with the above posters, I seen the videos on the throttle input data and thought people were really clutching at straws.
I suspect its all nothing to to divert attention

Teddy Lop

6,930 posts

51 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
What press is saying this? Dutch press I'm guessing?

I don't think anyone else is taking it that seriously, as it makes no sense whatsoever for the team no2 driver to tactically crash to thrawt his No1 then blab to the bosses about it. It's just a bit silly isn't it.

As for throttle jabs how does it compare to practice hot laps, other drivers etc, as it's a far from unheard of technique. And how did RB telemetry find itself in the press btw?

......

6,507 posts

133 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
nikaiyo2 said:
I think the main reason it’s not being discussed is that it is clearly utter crap put out by the usual Max apologists, by way of an excuse for his idiotic antics.

If SP did crash on purpose, why crash the way he did and risk damage to the gearbox? He could easily have kissed a wall, stopping the session with no risk.

What did SP gain from the crash? Locking in 3rd on the grid… as opposed to the lowest realistic grid slot of 4th.

I would say there are 2 options either SP cheated against all logic or the rumour is MV social media mates attempting to deflect attention from his idiotic driving.
Assuming this is accurate - having not seen the event in question I have no idea - then he either binned it accidentally or screwed up trying to cheat while not being in a position to benefit from cheating himself. We've seen lots of cheating and questionable incidents at Monaco, and if MV is yet to set a good lap then the team definitely loses out, and as pointed out locking in third like that when you have a top tier car is unacceptably high risk of damage.

If Perez was on pole, I'd be a lot more suspicious, but from the sound of it it is driver error one way or another.

LukeBrown66

3,182 posts

30 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
Let us also be honest here, over his career perez has been no saint, he was ruthlessly nasty at times in junior classes, and has done some fairly questionable things in f1 aswell over a long career, mainly good, but like anyone good usually he is no saint so I have little sympathy sadly.

thegreenhell

11,770 posts

203 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
If (big if) he crashed on purpose, what was he hoping to gain that was worth risking a grid penalty for potential engine or gearbox damage when flew backwards into the barrier? For it to be cheating there has to be a potential upside to it, otherwise he's just disadvantaging himself.

Spevs

93 posts

12 months

Wednesday 16th November
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Whatever is behind, it I feel this demonstrates a major flaw in Max Verstappen's brand/character and shows its all about MAX, there's no i in team, so moving forward it'll be interesting to see what happens in the future.

Jasandjules

68,294 posts

213 months

Wednesday 16th November
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So he told his bosses he deliberately crashed and stopped Max getting Pole. And is signed up again.. Ok then.

angrymoby

2,042 posts

162 months

Wednesday 16th November
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“I told you already last summer, guys. Don’t ask that again to me, okay? Are we clear about that? I gave my reasons and I stand by it.”

that doesn't sound like it was about Monaco this year, does it?

Teddy Lop said:
What press is saying this? Dutch press I'm guessing?

I don't think anyone else is taking it that seriously, as it makes no sense whatsoever for the team no2 driver to tactically crash to thrawt his No1 then blab to the bosses about it. It's just a bit silly isn't it.

As for throttle jabs how does it compare to practice hot laps, other drivers etc, as it's a far from unheard of technique. And how did RB telemetry find itself in the press btw?
that would be my take ...& iirc the telemetry isn't official & is fan 'created'

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes at RBR, but considering they have won the WDC/ WCC they don't seem very happy at the moment

wonder if Max is contemplating to doing a Schumi when he was at Benetton

Edited by angrymoby on Wednesday 16th November 10:41

parabolica

6,289 posts

168 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
I can't recall exactly, but didn't Perez get screwed in the race prior to Monaco? Asked to move over for Max I think - I remember there being a whole "yeah ok I'll do it but it's not fair" radio message. Then he comes back strong in Monaco and takes the win thanks to his pole.

Not saying that justifies what he did (if he did it) but gives some context as to why he might of.

ETA totally forgot he didn't take pole as TGH points out below... ignore me.

Edited by parabolica on Wednesday 16th November 11:15

thegreenhell

11,770 posts

203 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
parabolica said:
I can't recall exactly, but didn't Perez get screwed in the race prior to Monaco? Asked to move over for Max I think - I remember there being a whole "yeah ok I'll do it but it's not fair" radio message. Then he comes back strong in Monaco and takes the win thanks to his pole.

Not saying that justifies what he did (if he did it) but gives some context as to why he might of.
Except he started third behind two Ferraris in Monaco, so a win from there was a long shot at best.

Stupot123

61 posts

92 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
Not a bad theory. I don't know what, but there is something going on. No smoke without fire and all that!

There is something Perez has done that Max feels has wronged him. Something that Max not rewarding Perez with some extra points has made Max feel better about, vindicated almost.

Its not something that's been obvious to us and out in the public domain.

Its clearly a secret and something they don't want to talk about/disclose in public. Max looked smug, as if he knew that Horner couldn't and wouldn't drop him in it by explaining exactly what had happened, which I would take it would be because it would reflect even worse on Horner/Red Bull.

Secrets are normally secrets for a reason!

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,895 posts

177 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
In short, not many believe it, fine with me, I don`t want to see him get hung out to dry, still, if, as has been suggested this is from Max apologists it only

hurts RBR, so that makes no sense.

lambosagogo

183 posts

128 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
hot metal said:
In short, not many believe it, fine with me, I don`t want to see him get hung out to dry, still, if, as has been suggested this is from Max apologists it only

hurts RBR, so that makes no sense.
It only hurts RBR and MV in the eyes of people who already don't think much of them or neutrals who are on the fence.

It doesn't hurt RBR and MV in the eyes of people who support MV or RBR. It's those people these comments are targeted at, to reinforce the position that the Brazil behaviour was justified, that there was a sensible reason and that everything is awesome.

ChocolateFrog

19,097 posts

157 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
hot metal said:
Not a great deal being said on here about the possibility Perez cheated in Monaco qualifying, costing Max & Sainz a crack at pole & a possible race win.

It is rumoured he admitted it to Horner & Marko, who then presumably buried it, naughty. Images have appeared online of data showing he jabbed the

throttle twice heading into the corner he spun at. Now either people like Perez too much to highlight this, so obviously I`m a bd or don`t believe it`s

true.

Press has been comparing it to crashgate or Schumacher`s piss poor effort there years ago, not sure, but amazed PH isn`t all over it. Horner should have

some explaining (lying) to do at least.
Horner lying?

Nah don't believe it.

angrymoby

2,042 posts

162 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
hot metal said:
In short, not many believe it
after Singapore 2008, RBR better hope the FIA dont

MKnight702

2,936 posts

198 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
Spevs said:
Whatever is behind, it I feel this demonstrates a major flaw in Max Verstappen's brand/character and shows its all about MAX, there's no i in team, so moving forward it'll be interesting to see what happens in the future.
But obviously there is a me me me me me.

The team have a hand in causing this, they consistently promote one driver as the team leader to the detriment of anyone else. This has to have an impact on the favored driver if even at a subconscious level. It is not the first time that RB have had problems getting their favored driver to sacrifice a place for the seat warmer in the other car. Personally, I think that RB must be a terribly toxic place for an unfavored driver, look at the string of promising drivers that have been chewed up and spat out by RB, all in the name of supporting the favored one.

georgefreeman918

537 posts

83 months

Wednesday 16th November
quotequote all
I think there are a number of factors to consider in what happened:

- Max clearly thinks strongly enough that Perez has done something previously, and therefore wants to get one up on him by giving him some extra points at Sao Paulo. Max has nothing to gain, other than to get one over on Perez.

- Did Perez cheat in Moncao quali? Having been back and watched the footage, there appears to be a big stab of throttle and not much steering correction to try and catch the oversteer. However, he was third, and therefore unable to gain a great deal, other than over his team mate (perhaps at Monaco he believed he had a shot at the WDC?) Also very risky putting it in the barrier even at low speed.

- Max and the RBR team would see this throttle spike and steering angle in the data, so I imagine they know if Perez did bin it on purpose.

No Instagram posts from Max since Saturday, so he will be keeping his head down. Having checked his recent previous posts on various social media he is getting a lot of heat - even from his own orange army!

Personally, I think there is a rift in the team, but I am not sure when it started. Perez said some highly critical comments about Max for what would have been only a couple more points (not like Perez was asking Max to move over for the race win). No doubt we will ever know the truth and it will all be brushed under the carpet.