What do you think's going on at Mercedes right now then?

[Niponeoff]

maz8062 said:

500TORQUES said:

Niponeoff said:

According to 500 torques they haven't done well internationally.

Do we really have to explain how conversations go? You start of with one thing and end up talking about something else, that's what happens. Do keep up.

I suggest you read what i wrote.

The Americans are good at building domestic franchises such as the NFL, NBA and baseball, they dont expand beyond the USA with these franchise models, possibly because in many countries it's an illegal cartel practice. The USA has specific legislation to exempt these franchises from the closed shop laws every other US business has to operate under.

I wouldn't be surprised if this new closed shop model F1 has adopted comes under scrutiny from the EU/UK law makers, because it likely breaks EU and UK law.

It wouldn't be the first time F1 was forced to change its practices because of EU law, the recent Liberty working group that came up with the new regulations potentially broke that law, which is why that technical group now work for the FIA and no longer for Liberty.

What! How have we gone from Americans not being good at marketing to Europe - forgetting the stellar performance of Liberty, to F1 will soon be under the gaze of the authorities for a being a cartel. Weird.

He's lost me on that one. I'm out.

I should be home for FP1 tomorrow! That's my afternoon sorted.

[Bo_apex]

TheDeuce said:

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Far fewer Italians working at team Merc, that should help.

What's wrong with Italian people ?

Nothing at all - at least not in general anything that is 'wrong' with most of them, the same as most nationalities.

But having worked with teams of engineers and producers from all over Europe, and beyond, I have noticed there is a particularly 'Italian' way of dealing with things, especially when things go wrong and blame is to be apportioned or cause and effect honestly identified and learned from.

Perhaps my observations are purely coincidental, perhaps I've just happened to only meet Italians that have a certain way of dealing with problems and responsibility/blame under pressure? Or perhaps there is something of a national trait at play, as we British have our own flawed national traits, and that might explain why Ferrari only ever seem to do well in F1 when the team is mostly if not exclusively being managed and directed by people that are not Italian.

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

[marine boy]

Bo_apex said:

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

I'm not Italian but have enjoyed working with many talented Italian engineers

Including Aldo who is one of the best irrespective of nationality

My best boss ever is Italian and now a F1 Technical Director, a few other Italian's I've really enjoyed working with are now a F1 Team Principle and F1 Chief Designer's

The Deuce you must work in an engineering industry full of duffers

[Slyjoe]

marine boy said:

Bo_apex said:

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

I'm not Italian but have enjoyed working with many talented Italian engineers

Including Aldo who is one of the best irrespective of nationality

My best boss ever is Italian and now a F1 Technical Director, a few other Italian's I've really enjoyed working with are now a F1 Team Principle and F1 Chief Designer's

The Deuce you must work in an engineering industry full of duffers

I've also worked with Aldo, and I found him to be a very humble, but very talented man.
MarineBoy, nice to see you back in the thread. I'm sure we must have crossed paths at work before, or at least have mutual friends.

I can echo lots of your previous comments in this thread - MAMGF1 looked after me very well when I had a lot of personal issues and had to take some time out.

In terms of what's happening at Merc now, I'm fairly sure there are leaving drinks in Brackley most Fridays now, but the core of the decent engineers are still there thrashing out solutions, but a little hog-tied by cost engineers.

[marine boy]

Slyjoe said:

I've also worked with Aldo, and I found him to be a very humble, but very talented man.
MarineBoy, nice to see you back in the thread. I'm sure we must have crossed paths at work before, or at least have mutual friends.

I can echo lots of your previous comments in this thread - MAMGF1 looked after me very well when I had a lot of personal issues and had to take some time out.

In terms of what's happening at Merc now, I'm fairly sure there are leaving drinks in Brackley most Fridays now, but the core of the decent engineers are still there thrashing out solutions, but a little hog-tied by cost engineers.

Thanks Slyjoe, you sound like a brother from another mother so hope we've worked together before. If not we'll for sure have many mutual friends at Brackley and other teams

Good teams do look after good people as they're just not enough good people to go around

Think a lot of people at Mercedes that have only known winning are in for a real shock and will question carrying on when they find themselves working twice as hard for half the race results

Been there done that many times and it's not a fun experience but it does teach you a lot about yourself and who you can count on while you claw your way back up the grid

So many people on here critiquing Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren etc making people in teams out to be a bunch of clowns because if what they've seen on the TV. They just haven't got a clue of what it takes and wouldn't last a week working at the intensity required while fighting at the top, middle and bottom end of the F1 grid

I'll stick up for any and everyone who works in F1 or even motorsport in general, whatever nationality and whatever level their job is.

Instead of the arm chair experts on here giving it the big nads, go and have a go if you think you're up to working in F1. There are no shortage of opportunites out there if you want it bad enough. Never know you might like it and never want to leave

How's that for a rant

Edited by marine boy on Thursday 16th March 23:10

[500TORQUES]

marine boy said:

How's that for a rant

3/10

Put more effort into it.

[marine boy]

500TORQUES said:

3/10

Put more effort into it.

No one will have seen I even went all Italian waving both arms at my lap top

That must bump it up to at least a 5/10

[500TORQUES]

Niponeoff said:

He's lost me on that one. I'm out.

I should be home for FP1 tomorrow! That's my afternoon sorted.

It was a discussion about the American franchise model and how that works in the USA due to the laws created to protect it. There is a great fun film on Netflix called the battered bds of baseball which touches on it. Even if you dont like baseball its a really fun film if you fancy an evenings entertainment.

Those same franchise practices elsewhere are illegal.

With regards to the EU, i expected people here knew about the legal case that forced the seperation between the regulator and promoter in sport, the case was brought against the FIA. Having the promoter write the rules breached that agreement, which is why the team was moved from Liberties control to the FIA payroll.

I didn't think that was too left field for people on here to illustrate how the Americans franchise sports, and the systems they are used to operate within.

[500TORQUES]

marine boy said:

No one will have seen I even went all Italian waving both arms at my lap top

That must bump it up to at least a 5/10

Edited by 500TORQUES on Thursday 16th March 23:54

[Siao]

marine boy said:

Slyjoe said:

I've also worked with Aldo, and I found him to be a very humble, but very talented man.
MarineBoy, nice to see you back in the thread. I'm sure we must have crossed paths at work before, or at least have mutual friends.

I can echo lots of your previous comments in this thread - MAMGF1 looked after me very well when I had a lot of personal issues and had to take some time out.

In terms of what's happening at Merc now, I'm fairly sure there are leaving drinks in Brackley most Fridays now, but the core of the decent engineers are still there thrashing out solutions, but a little hog-tied by cost engineers.

Thanks Slyjoe, you sound like a brother from another mother so hope we've worked together before. If not we'll for sure have many mutual friends at Brackley and other teams

Good teams do look after good people as they're just not enough good people to go around

Think a lot of people at Mercedes that have only known winning are in for a real shock and will question carrying on when they find themselves working twice as hard for half the race results

Been there done that many times and it's not a fun experience but it does teach you a lot about yourself and who you can count on while you claw your way back up the grid

So many people on here critiquing Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren etc making people in teams out to be a bunch of clowns because if what they've seen on the TV. They just haven't got a clue of what it takes and wouldn't last a week working at the intensity required while fighting at the top, middle and bottom end of the F1 grid

I'll stick up for any and everyone who works in F1 or even motorsport in general, whatever nationality and whatever level their job is.

Instead of the arm chair experts on here giving it the big nads, go and have a go if you think you're up to working in F1. There are no shortage of opportunites out there if you want it bad enough. Never know you might like it and never want to leave

How's that for a rant

Edited by marine boy on Thursday 16th March 23:10

That's typical though, armchair experts. England has, for example, about 56m football managers when playing international football and 56m politicians when elections come round! This is how it goes

[Bo_apex]

marine boy said:

Bo_apex said:

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

I'm not Italian but have enjoyed working with many talented Italian engineers

Including Aldo who is one of the best irrespective of nationality

My best boss ever is Italian and now a F1 Technical Director, a few other Italian's I've really enjoyed working with are now a F1 Team Principle and F1 Chief Designer's

The Deuce you must work in an engineering industry full of duffers

Well said marine boy

Yes the pub know-it-all must be working with duffers.

[Siao]

Bo_apex said:

marine boy said:

Bo_apex said:

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

I'm not Italian but have enjoyed working with many talented Italian engineers

Including Aldo who is one of the best irrespective of nationality

My best boss ever is Italian and now a F1 Technical Director, a few other Italian's I've really enjoyed working with are now a F1 Team Principle and F1 Chief Designer's

The Deuce you must work in an engineering industry full of duffers

Well said marine boy

Yes the pub know-it-all must be working with duffers.

Stranger Things have happened...

[Derek Smith]

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Far fewer Italians working at team Merc, that should help.

What's wrong with Italian people ?

Nothing at all - at least not in general anything that is 'wrong' with most of them, the same as most nationalities.

But having worked with teams of engineers and producers from all over Europe, and beyond, I have noticed there is a particularly 'Italian' way of dealing with things, especially when things go wrong and blame is to be apportioned or cause and effect honestly identified and learned from.

Perhaps my observations are purely coincidental, perhaps I've just happened to only meet Italians that have a certain way of dealing with problems and responsibility/blame under pressure? Or perhaps there is something of a national trait at play, as we British have our own flawed national traits, and that might explain why Ferrari only ever seem to do well in F1 when the team is mostly if not exclusively being managed and directed by people that are not Italian.

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

A friend worked in Italy for a while. He used to send me newspapers he'd collected after races, with editorials, and lots of copy, on the results. If Ferrari did well, not too frequent an occurrence in those days, the pages would be full of praise and adulation. One particular season, the results didn't come and the blame-game was endemic. Editorials covering more than one page, demanding sackings. What our own Il Duce said about blame is, I think, not far from the truth, and as for the removal of foreigners from management, that was their biggest mistake.

I don't follow Italian social media, so I have no idea if the same sort of criticisms are rampant still.

[Derek Smith]

As for the OP's initial question: Merc are praying.

They don't want to be beaten by their second team again; that's a must. They want podiums; that's their secondary target.

Given how well Alonso went, the problem is not with the power unit/transmission/rear suspension. So fixable, and to the extent to be in second place. They have the drivers. They are doing something wrong.

[Snappy89]

Sam Collins made mention on the weekend warm up that Mercedes have the 2024 car in the wind tunnel already.

Suggests 2023 will be spent testing options for 2024.

Edited by Snappy89 on Friday 17th March 11:50

[Bo_apex]

Derek Smith said:

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Bo_apex said:

TheDeuce said:

Far fewer Italians working at team Merc, that should help.

What's wrong with Italian people ?

Nothing at all - at least not in general anything that is 'wrong' with most of them, the same as most nationalities.

But having worked with teams of engineers and producers from all over Europe, and beyond, I have noticed there is a particularly 'Italian' way of dealing with things, especially when things go wrong and blame is to be apportioned or cause and effect honestly identified and learned from.

Perhaps my observations are purely coincidental, perhaps I've just happened to only meet Italians that have a certain way of dealing with problems and responsibility/blame under pressure? Or perhaps there is something of a national trait at play, as we British have our own flawed national traits, and that might explain why Ferrari only ever seem to do well in F1 when the team is mostly if not exclusively being managed and directed by people that are not Italian.

you need to be qualified in order to tie the shoe laces of Aldo Costa and other Italians who were key to Mercedes golden period of dominance

A friend worked in Italy for a while. He used to send me newspapers he'd collected after races, with editorials, and lots of copy, on the results. If Ferrari did well, not too frequent an occurrence in those days, the pages would be full of praise and adulation. One particular season, the results didn't come and the blame-game was endemic. Editorials covering more than one page, demanding sackings. What our own Il Duce said about blame is, I think, not far from the truth, and as for the removal of foreigners from management, that was their biggest mistake.

I don't follow Italian social media, so I have no idea if the same sort of criticisms are rampant still.

Ferrari is without doubt the most highly pressured and scrutinised team in F1. It's the downside of working for the National Team

[Pflanzgarten]

Angela Cullen (Lewis’ trainer/assistant) has now announced she is leaving.

[SturdyHSV]

Pflanzgarten said:

Angela Cullen (Lewis’ trainer/assistant) has now announced she is leaving.

Wow, I can only imagine that'll be a big change for Lewis, those two have worked closely together for such a long time! Has there been a date given?

[Pflanzgarten]

SturdyHSV said:

Pflanzgarten said:

Angela Cullen (Lewis’ trainer/assistant) has now announced she is leaving.

Wow, I can only imagine that'll be a big change for Lewis, those two have worked closely together for such a long time! Has there been a date given?

She’s not there today.

[Niponeoff]

marine boy said:

Slyjoe said:

I've also worked with Aldo, and I found him to be a very humble, but very talented man.
MarineBoy, nice to see you back in the thread. I'm sure we must have crossed paths at work before, or at least have mutual friends.

I can echo lots of your previous comments in this thread - MAMGF1 looked after me very well when I had a lot of personal issues and had to take some time out.

In terms of what's happening at Merc now, I'm fairly sure there are leaving drinks in Brackley most Fridays now, but the core of the decent engineers are still there thrashing out solutions, but a little hog-tied by cost engineers.

Thanks Slyjoe, you sound like a brother from another mother so hope we've worked together before. If not we'll for sure have many mutual friends at Brackley and other teams

Good teams do look after good people as they're just not enough good people to go around

Think a lot of people at Mercedes that have only known winning are in for a real shock and will question carrying on when they find themselves working twice as hard for half the race results

Been there done that many times and it's not a fun experience but it does teach you a lot about yourself and who you can count on while you claw your way back up the grid

So many people on here critiquing Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren etc making people in teams out to be a bunch of clowns because if what they've seen on the TV. They just haven't got a clue of what it takes and wouldn't last a week working at the intensity required while fighting at the top, middle and bottom end of the F1 grid

I'll stick up for any and everyone who works in F1 or even motorsport in general, whatever nationality and whatever level their job is.

Instead of the arm chair experts on here giving it the big nads, go and have a go if you think you're up to working in F1. There are no shortage of opportunites out there if you want it bad enough. Never know you might like it and never want to leave

How's that for a rant

Edited by marine boy on Thursday 16th March 23:10

I value your input to this thread as you work in F1. But let's not pretend F1 is the highest pressure work on the planet. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in a job that doesn't suit you either, whatever that might be. Whether it be cold and wet at sea, covered in grease and oil, working to deadlines in other industries, sweating your cobs off on a forced march or eating rations on the battlefield. Maybe show a wee bit more humility.

Touche on rant.