Are Red bull cheating?

[marine boy]

ralphrj said:

Were they called Geoff?

No, pretty sure he plays as straight a game as any

[732NM]

maz8062 said:

Some folk believe that F1 today is like it was in the 70’s when Gordon Murray trialed the fan car - used it for a couple of races and it was promptly banned thereafter.

The fan car raced once and it was not banned.

Bernie agreed to withdraw it as a chip in his poker game of gaining control of the sports money. Gordan was pissed off as it was 100% legal, but Bernie was playing a different sport.

[732NM]

TheDeuce said:

I thought all designs were published to the FIA now? Apologies if incorrect.

If that's the case, fair enough. But from a scrutineering perspective, I think it's still asking a bit much to incorporate new components with no justifiable purpose. It would invite interest and investigation.

Work on an F1 car and you will understand just how daft that comment is. The packaging is incredible.

[ralphrj]

marine boy said:

ralphrj said:

Were they called Geoff?

No, pretty sure he plays as straight a game as any

Interesting, I heard he was once found inside another team's truck.

[zsdom]

Not sure where to post this but Checo claiming Max now having the issues he has been having.

If the device was there was it only on one car?

https://x.com/f1/status/1830947602084376980?s=46&a...

[Maxdecel]

zsdom said:

Not sure where to post this but Checo claiming Max now having the issues he has been having.

If the device was there was it only on one car?

https://x.com/f1/status/1830947602084376980?s=46&a...

No, no team were using it. This is obviously pure coincidence.

[nikaiyo2]

marine boy said:

You're making a huge assumption that RBR have done something and then were stopped, cheating or legal

Maybe it's as simple that they've just lost their way or come up against a wall following their aero concept

Easily done with the new 'super sensitive' ground effect era, just look how Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari and RBR have gone up and down in the aero development race

Edited by marine boy on Tuesday 3rd September 01:09

I have no idea about F1 rules other than having watched it on the telly, so I might be talking balls.

What strikes me as odd is RB looked like it was on rails, it turned in like no other car on the grid, for 2 years it was head and shoulders better looking than every other car. From the onboard videos you would see Hamilton, Alonso, Sainz, Albon etc hack-sawing at the steering wheel to try and get the car to turn in, correcting it mid corner, MV & RB never had to do this.

Whilst I agree the others have caught up, a bit, it looks to me more like RB have gone backwards, LH, LN, FA are still having to hustle the car into a corner, maybe a bit less than before, but the reason they are now competitive with RB is that RB are now having to do the same, they used to look vastly better on turn in than the entire field.

If the others have caught up then RB would perform as they had been wouldn't they? They would still have the on rails turn in, the others would have a more stable turn in, I am confident that this is not what has happened.

[moorx]

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere.

Complaints about McLaren and Mercedes front wings rejected:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/c3w6...

[skwdenyer]

nikaiyo2 said:

I have no idea about F1 rules other than having watched it on the telly, so I might be talking balls.

What strikes me as odd is RB looked like it was on rails, it turned in like no other car on the grid, for 2 years it was head and shoulders better looking than every other car. From the onboard videos you would see Hamilton, Alonso, Sainz, Albon etc hack-sawing at the steering wheel to try and get the car to turn in, correcting it mid corner, MV & RB never had to do this.

Whilst I agree the others have caught up, a bit, it looks to me more like RB have gone backwards, LH, LN, FA are still having to hustle the car into a corner, maybe a bit less than before, but the reason they are now competitive with RB is that RB are now having to do the same, they used to look vastly better on turn in than the entire field.

If the others have caught up then RB would perform as they had been wouldn't they? They would still have the on rails turn in, the others would have a more stable turn in, I am confident that this is not what has happened.

FWIW Joe Saward doesn’t think the rule “clarification” and RBR’s loss of form are unrelated… I agree that the RBR seems to no longer be the car it was.

[Jasandjules]

skwdenyer said:

FWIW Joe Saward doesn’t think the rule “clarification” and RBR’s loss of form are unrelated… I agree that the RBR seems to no longer be the car it was.

It is all too much of a coincidence to suggest three teams have all suddenly leapt a second a lap forward. And frankly ludicrous to think that is likely to happen in one race.. The same race where a rule "clarification" flows...

[DOCG]

So was the supposed braking device on both Red Bull cars or only Verstappen's?

It could explain thr huge delta between the two, Perez was not viewed as such a bad driver before 2022.

[anonymous_user]

DOCG said:

So was the supposed braking device on both Red Bull cars or only Verstappen's?

It could explain thr huge delta between the two, Perez was not viewed as such a bad driver before 2022.

i doubt it was on Verstappens only, as you'd be halving your development time of it & sacrificing WCC points

more likely Perez just couldn't adapt to it like Verstappen could ...akin to Vettel & Webber during the blown diffuser era

[DOCG]

anonymous_user said:

DOCG said:

So was the supposed braking device on both Red Bull cars or only Verstappen's?

It could explain thr huge delta between the two, Perez was not viewed as such a bad driver before 2022.

i doubt it was on Verstappens only, as you'd be halving your development time of it & sacrificing WCC points

more likely Perez just couldn't adapt to it like Verstappen could ...akin to Vettel & Webber during the blown diffuser era

The team would also be halving the risk of it being caught and subsequently banned.

[hondajack85]

You would want one driver to look super crap so any winning is due to max being so flipping great.
If both of them were blowing everyone away the f1 police would look very close at the car.

[Blib]

Max has lost roughly 50 seconds. Going from 20 in front to 30 behind in a matter of weeks.

Maybe, he's forgotten how to drive quickly?

[732NM]

Those 20 in front was with him cruising. It's an enormous loss of performance.

[Blib]

[lambosagogo]

732NM said:

Those 20 in front was with him cruising. It's an enormous loss of performance.

The difference between Max and Sergio will be worth keeping an eye on too.

[p1stonhead]

It’s honestly astonishing the level it’s dropped off.

Has it ever happened so badly/fast before?

Im thinking Brawn in 2009 but this seems worse even than that.

[Forester1965]

p1stonhead said:

It’s honestly astonishing the level it’s dropped off.

Has it ever happened so badly/fast before?

Im thinking Brawn in 2009 but this seems worse even than that.

Brawn was different. It started out with a really effective specific advantage (double diffuser). They aced the design. Toyota and Williams also had them but not as effective.

The teams without challenged legality and failed, so raced to add it to their cars.

Brawn had no money. They couldn't develop the car as the season went on to the same degree as the others. Eventually the others caught up and passed them.

This year is like the opposite effect. Imagine Red Bull won their 2009 challenge against the double diffuser and Brawn had to take it off. That's what we're seeing this year with Red Bull.