Are Red bull cheating?

[Blink982]

The FIA were trying to hobble Merc all the way through their period of dominance. I love how some (Max) fans drag up absolute ste about them having a headstart on the PU. They didn’t. They just nailed it.

They removed FRiC, DAS, Third element dampers and the PU token system.

We’ve yet to discover if they actually did anything to hobble red Bull but the RB has went from an ‘on rails’ cornering machine to a hard to control near midfield car in the space of a season

[Heathwood]

Blink982 said:

The FIA were trying to hobble Merc all the way through their period of dominance. I love how some (Max) fans drag up absolute ste about them having a headstart on the PU. They didn’t. They just nailed it.

They removed FRiC, DAS, Third element dampers and the PU token system.

We’ve yet to discover if they actually did anything to hobble red Bull but the RB has went from an ‘on rails’ cornering machine to a hard to control near midfield car in the space of a season fortnight

Fixed that for you

[Megaflow]

deadslow said:

other teams innovate; RedBull cheat

Apart from Ferrari’s fuel flow truck, which was cheating, and potentially, something on the Red Bull, which has yet to be confirmed. I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years. So yes, I would say the others, with the exception of the Ferrari fuel flow and if this Red Bull situation is correct, your statement is true.

[Leithen]

Megaflow said:

Apart from Ferrari’s fuel flow truck, which was cheating, and potentially, something on the Red Bull, which has yet to be confirmed. I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years. So yes, I would say the others, with the exception of the Ferrari fuel flow and if this Red Bull situation is correct, your statement is true.

The truck was far too obvious. They needed to be much more subtle.

[PhilAsia]

Heathwood said:

Blink982 said:

The FIA were trying to hobble Merc all the way through their period of dominance. I love how some (Max) fans drag up absolute ste about them having a headstart on the PU. They didn’t. They just nailed it.

They removed FRiC, DAS, Third element dampers and the PU token system.

We’ve yet to discover if they actually did anything to hobble red Bull but the RB has went from an ‘on rails’ cornering machine to a hard to control near midfield car in the space of a season fortnight

Fixed that for you

Yep, the AirJordan's got four feet more air, but stick with the deep-sea diving boots.., I think we're onto something here!!

[Bo_apex]

AceRockatansky said:

thegreenhell said:

Bo_apex said:

Totally agree. If only the FIA had intervened during the Mercedes dominance era.

On what grounds? Mercedes weren't systematically cheating. You can't tell them to stop doing something if they're doing nothing wrong, just doing the right things better than anyone else. There were instances where Mercedes pushed loopholes too far and got reigned back in, exactly as happens with every team from time to time, but no outright cheating (that we know of).

What the FIA also did was introduce two major conceptual rules changes during that period in an effort to shake up the order. The first one in 2017 was expected to impact Mercedes more than the others, until it turned out that it didn't. The second one planned for 2021, delayed until 2022, put us where we are now.

Mercedes got the PU right from day 1 which carried them a long way. They benefited from the packaging that came with it and could concentrate on the car whilst their nearest rivals were still getting to grips with the PU. McL and RB were nowhere.

^^this^^

It began in 2007.
FIA then baked in Mercedes advantage so no other teams could catch up.

https://www.gptoday.com/details/view/593536/Montez...

[NRS]

Bo_apex said:

^^this^^

It began in 2007.
FIA then baked in Mercedes advantage so no other teams could catch up.

https://www.gptoday.com/details/view/593536/Montez...

Same as the cost cap does these days for example?

[deadslow]

Megaflow said:

Apart from Ferrari’s fuel flow truck, which was cheating, and potentially, something on the Red Bull, which has yet to be confirmed. I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years. So yes, I would say the others, with the exception of the Ferrari fuel flow and if this Red Bull situation is correct, your statement is true.

what is it RedBull have been told to remove? A something?

[MustangGT]

Bo_apex said:

Totally agree. If only the FIA had intervened during the Mercedes dominance era.

Where is your smiley for sarcasm?

The FIA did everything possible to rein back Mercedes, party mode was banned, DAS ended up banned even though legal under the rules etc.

[georgefreeman918]

vaud said:

Bright Halo said:

Conspiracy theory!
The special bits/sauce was only fitted to MV's car.
Now it has been removed the performance dif between MV and Perez has evaporated.
Perez knew of this, that is why the team kept him on.

Why on earth would they want to hobble one car and cost WCC points?

Didn't MV win the WCC on his own last year (or very nearly) with such dominance. Maybe they expected the same again this year.

Would explain the 'keep MV happy' by having a second car not quite competitive enough to pose a risk.

[deadslow]

Megaflow said:

I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years.

that aged well

[WPA]

deadslow said:

Megaflow said:

I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years.

that aged well

If your talking about Mclaren, after discussions with the FIA they have agreed to modify the rear wing however they have not been asked to remove it plus they are not using for this and the next few GP's anyway

[Megaflow]

deadslow said:

Megaflow said:

I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years.

that aged well

Didn't it just...

[Siao]

MustangGT said:

Bo_apex said:

Totally agree. If only the FIA had intervened during the Mercedes dominance era.

Where is your smiley for sarcasm?

The FIA did everything possible to rein back Mercedes, party mode was banned, DAS ended up banned even though legal under the rules etc.

In fairness, party mode was banned in 2020 or something, they left it on for ages.

[Bo_apex]

Siao said:

In fairness, party mode was banned in 2020 or something, they left it on for ages.

Was that 6 years or 7 years ?

Either way the FIA was far too sleepy

[Siao]

Bo_apex said:

Siao said:

In fairness, party mode was banned in 2020 or something, they left it on for ages.

Was that 6 years or 7 years ?

Either way the FIA was far too sleepy

I don't remember when they started using it. And I'm not sure it was illegal exactly; all teams had their own quali mode, it's just that Mercedes's was the best one. I think they stopped it to get the engines closer and to "police" it easier. Cost cutting was also in the mix

[PlywoodPascal]

Bo_apex said:

Siao said:

In fairness, party mode was banned in 2020 or something, they left it on for ages.

Was that 6 years or 7 years ?

Either way the FIA was far too sleepy

hmm

in the first few years of the regulations they totally watered down all of the homologation and in-season development restrictions that were put into the rules so that the other manufactures could develop at a rate where they would actually catch up. they also changed the rules to restrict oil burning. there were a number of other changes I think but I do not recall them right now.
But anyway. I don't think it's correct to say that FIA were asleep, in fact the started loosening the regulations almost as soon as they'd been introduced to try to allow others to catch up.

[Bo_apex]

PlywoodPascal said:

Bo_apex said:

Siao said:

In fairness, party mode was banned in 2020 or something, they left it on for ages.

Was that 6 years or 7 years ?

Either way the FIA was far too sleepy

hmm

in the first few years of the regulations they totally watered down all of the homologation and in-season development restrictions that were put into the rules so that the other manufactures could develop at a rate where they would actually catch up. they also changed the rules to restrict oil burning. there were a number of other changes I think but I do not recall them right now.
But anyway. I don't think it's correct to say that FIA were asleep, in fact the started loosening the regulations almost as soon as they'd been introduced to try to allow others to catch up.

Hmmm...

"As is currently the case, there will be a 'freeze' with power units homologated by the FIA between 2014 and 2020."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9077826/ge...

[Sandpit Steve]

Leithen said:

Megaflow said:

Apart from Ferrari’s fuel flow truck, which was cheating, and potentially, something on the Red Bull, which has yet to be confirmed. I don’t recall any other team being told to remove anything in the last 10 years. So yes, I would say the others, with the exception of the Ferrari fuel flow and if this Red Bull situation is correct, your statement is true.

The truck was far too obvious. They needed to be much more subtle.

That truck was really quite funny.

If you find a way to get extra fuel past the sensor, then do 1% extra not 10% extra. Everyone notices 10% extra, almost immediately.

[skwdenyer]

Bo_apex said:

Hmmm...

"As is currently the case, there will be a 'freeze' with power units homologated by the FIA between 2014 and 2020."

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9077826/ge...

Wasn’t the get-out clause changes “necessary for reliability reasons?”