Are Red bull cheating?
Discussion
Dashnine said:
As per the Ferrari situation mentioned above.
I find it hilarious how SkyF1 skirt around the 'sudden' lack of Red Bull performance, or even how it no longer appears to handle the same. I assume they don't want to upset RB, or the FIA. I don't watch other channels / sources, I can't imagine F1TV do either, what about C4 or other channels less concerned about upsetting the apple cart?
C4 has several RB employees, what do you think they are saying...? I find it hilarious how SkyF1 skirt around the 'sudden' lack of Red Bull performance, or even how it no longer appears to handle the same. I assume they don't want to upset RB, or the FIA. I don't watch other channels / sources, I can't imagine F1TV do either, what about C4 or other channels less concerned about upsetting the apple cart?
Muzzer79 said:
It seems relevant to point out that, were it not for Norris alone, Red Bull would have won by 20 seconds last weekend - a more familiar situation from pre-summer.
Perhaps we should therefore be looking at McLaren more than Red Bull…….
Exactly. Whichever car is winning people say they are cheating.Perhaps we should therefore be looking at McLaren more than Red Bull…….
GlobalRacer said:
Muzzer79 said:
It seems relevant to point out that, were it not for Norris alone, Red Bull would have won by 20 seconds last weekend - a more familiar situation from pre-summer.
Perhaps we should therefore be looking at McLaren more than Red Bull…….
Exactly. Whichever car is winning people say they are cheating.Perhaps we should therefore be looking at McLaren more than Red Bull…….
How many said that when the RB did far more than that at the start of the season, versus later when the RB suddenly lost a lot of speed and there was a rule clarification at the same time? Before that I saw quite a few posts about this season being the first RB would win fairly after the AD21 fiasco and the Catering Overspend issue.
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
ah, so you don't actually know what may have been removed from the RedBull, if anything at all.
If you think it coincidence that immediately after the FIA missive the RBR is suddenly nowhere, and have not won a race since, I suggest you give your head a wibble.What about the FIA/Ferrari deal around the engine fuelling. Nothing has been published, no results were altered, yet everybody knows what happened, is it your view that nothing was proven so it may not have happened?
deadslow said:
In his long interview with Jake Humphries, Newey seemed to suggest Merc won the 2021 WCC with an illegal car. And he knows his stuff. What's your thoughts?
Not seen the interview, so cannot comment on a specific statement, however, given the number of times the MB was subject to close scrutiny during the year I doubt there was anything illegal about it.It is also a fact that the 2021 RBR was developed by use of an illegal overspend. I find it comical that anybody from RBR would dare to suggest another car was illegal.
If the FIA had the will, they
isaldiri said:
GlobalRacer said:
Muzzer79 said:
It seems relevant to point out that, were it not for Norris alone, Red Bull would have won by 20 seconds last weekend - a more familiar situation from pre-summer.
Perhaps we should therefore be looking at McLaren more than Red Bull…….
Exactly. Whichever car is winning people say they are cheating.Perhaps we should therefore be looking at McLaren more than Red Bull…….
Bo_apex said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
ah, so you don't actually know what may have been removed from the RedBull, if anything at all.
If you think it coincidence that immediately after the FIA missive the RBR is suddenly nowhere, and have not won a race since, I suggest you give your head a wibble.What about the FIA/Ferrari deal around the engine fuelling. Nothing has been published, no results were altered, yet everybody knows what happened, is it your view that nothing was proven so it may not have happened?
deadslow said:
In his long interview with Jake Humphries, Newey seemed to suggest Merc won the 2021 WCC with an illegal car. And he knows his stuff. What's your thoughts?
Not seen the interview, so cannot comment on a specific statement, however, given the number of times the MB was subject to close scrutiny during the year I doubt there was anything illegal about it.It is also a fact that the 2021 RBR was developed by use of an illegal overspend. I find it comical that anybody from RBR would dare to suggest another car was illegal.
If the FIA had the will, they could have DQ'd the RBR from the championship, or even a single race, but we know they do everything possible to avoid righting wrongs or correcting awards after the event.
So Whatabout only MB powered safety cars supplied for so many years ?
What about the tender process for this contract ?
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/timelin...
All seems nice & cosy
MustangGT said:
Bo_apex said:
MustangGT said:
deadslow said:
ah, so you don't actually know what may have been removed from the RedBull, if anything at all.
If you think it coincidence that immediately after the FIA missive the RBR is suddenly nowhere, and have not won a race since, I suggest you give your head a wibble.What about the FIA/Ferrari deal around the engine fuelling. Nothing has been published, no results were altered, yet everybody knows what happened, is it your view that nothing was proven so it may not have happened?
deadslow said:
In his long interview with Jake Humphries, Newey seemed to suggest Merc won the 2021 WCC with an illegal car. And he knows his stuff. What's your thoughts?
Not seen the interview, so cannot comment on a specific statement, however, given the number of times the MB was subject to close scrutiny during the year I doubt there was anything illegal about it.It is also a fact that the 2021 RBR was developed by use of an illegal overspend. I find it comical that anybody from RBR would dare to suggest another car was illegal.
If the FIA had the will, they could have DQ'd the RBR from the championship, or even a single race, but we know they do everything possible to avoid righting wrongs or correcting awards after the event.
So Whatabout only MB powered safety cars supplied for so many years ?
What about the tender process for this contract ?
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/timelin...
All seems nice & cosy
Kym Sims
Jake899 said:
It's always nice to discuss these things, but it would be foolish to assume we know anything. These guys are the smartest of smart, and know the reality of the situation. We would be better off trusting that if there is something strange going on, it is simply strange because we don't know the full picture.
But of course, the world no longer works that way, sadly.
It may be something as simple as Red Bull have made an internal decision to prioritise developing a car to suit the coming new regulations and have slowed development on this years car at the same time as other teams doubled down and invested.
All other decisions made by RB show that they don't particularly seem to be fighting as hard as in previous years for perceived wrong decisions during races, tolerating the mediocrity of Perez, etc. Maybe they simply expected to struggle in the later stages of the championship. Max himself still most likely will win the DC.
The only thing I really care about is that F1 is exciting and unpredictable again. And I'm very grateful for that!
One problem with that theory, if they simply just stop developing the car, then it would still be handling like it’s on rails as per the start of the season and the first half dozen races. Something must’ve changed within the last few meetings. The car has gone from being on absolute rails to be in a bit of a pig (relative)by looks of it. But of course, the world no longer works that way, sadly.
It may be something as simple as Red Bull have made an internal decision to prioritise developing a car to suit the coming new regulations and have slowed development on this years car at the same time as other teams doubled down and invested.
All other decisions made by RB show that they don't particularly seem to be fighting as hard as in previous years for perceived wrong decisions during races, tolerating the mediocrity of Perez, etc. Maybe they simply expected to struggle in the later stages of the championship. Max himself still most likely will win the DC.
The only thing I really care about is that F1 is exciting and unpredictable again. And I'm very grateful for that!
That doesn’t happen if all you do is stop development. Yes other teams may catch you up or even surpass you, but your car doesn’t suddenly go from being a sublime handling chassis to a relatively difficult car to handle.
MB140 said:
Jake899 said:
It's always nice to discuss these things, but it would be foolish to assume we know anything. These guys are the smartest of smart, and know the reality of the situation. We would be better off trusting that if there is something strange going on, it is simply strange because we don't know the full picture.
But of course, the world no longer works that way, sadly.
It may be something as simple as Red Bull have made an internal decision to prioritise developing a car to suit the coming new regulations and have slowed development on this years car at the same time as other teams doubled down and invested.
All other decisions made by RB show that they don't particularly seem to be fighting as hard as in previous years for perceived wrong decisions during races, tolerating the mediocrity of Perez, etc. Maybe they simply expected to struggle in the later stages of the championship. Max himself still most likely will win the DC.
The only thing I really care about is that F1 is exciting and unpredictable again. And I'm very grateful for that!
One problem with that theory, if they simply just stop developing the car, then it would still be handling like it’s on rails as per the start of the season and the first half dozen races. Something must’ve changed within the last few meetings. The car has gone from being on absolute rails to be in a bit of a pig (relative)by looks of it. But of course, the world no longer works that way, sadly.
It may be something as simple as Red Bull have made an internal decision to prioritise developing a car to suit the coming new regulations and have slowed development on this years car at the same time as other teams doubled down and invested.
All other decisions made by RB show that they don't particularly seem to be fighting as hard as in previous years for perceived wrong decisions during races, tolerating the mediocrity of Perez, etc. Maybe they simply expected to struggle in the later stages of the championship. Max himself still most likely will win the DC.
The only thing I really care about is that F1 is exciting and unpredictable again. And I'm very grateful for that!
That doesn’t happen if all you do is stop development. Yes other teams may catch you up or even surpass you, but your car doesn’t suddenly go from being a sublime handling chassis to a relatively difficult car to handle.
As for Horner saying they have traced the issue back to an update in mid 2023, just cannot see it.
Also RB have not slowed down development, major update planned for the next race, as I said in a previous post I do wonder if they are going to breach the spend cap as they cannot keep throwing updates at the car.
Megaflow said:
Very interesting picture I came across earlier curtsey of The Race.
Remember though kids, nothing changed at Miami...
Since the Dutch GP I'm still wondering whether Verstappen knows he can't catch the McLarens so is hanging back a bit, enough to keep his position in the race but make the gap look worse for Red Bull.Remember though kids, nothing changed at Miami...
Are Red Bull cheating, probably not any more.
Also that bright spark Ralf Schumacher thinks he has identified the weak link since Newey left that has caused their form to drop.
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1057436/1/ralf-schum...
The man is a genius to spot that. I bet no one else has.
Also that bright spark Ralf Schumacher thinks he has identified the weak link since Newey left that has caused their form to drop.
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1057436/1/ralf-schum...
The man is a genius to spot that. I bet no one else has.
FourWheelDrift said:
Are Red Bull cheating, probably not any more.
Also that bright spark Ralf Schumacher thinks he has identified the weak link since Newey left that has caused their form to drop.
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1057436/1/ralf-schum...
The man is a genius to spot that. I bet no one else has.
I still think it is the technical clarification that has caused the difference. The simplest explanation is often correct.Also that bright spark Ralf Schumacher thinks he has identified the weak link since Newey left that has caused their form to drop.
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1057436/1/ralf-schum...
The man is a genius to spot that. I bet no one else has.
MustangGT said:
I still think it is the technical clarification that has caused the difference. The simplest explanation is often correct.
" Indeed, wild conspiracy theories that Red Bull’s drop in form was because it had had to remove an illegal asymmetrical braking system have long been discounted by the governing body – and rival teams do not think there was anything like that going on. "https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-vs-red-...
Could it be the Driver????
We all know Perez has lost it...... but maybe all the politics in the team and Newey leaving has had a negative effect on his driving? He's never going to admit it, and Red Bull are never going to upset him further by insinuating it's his issue or release data to show it, but maybe all the daddy anger with the team and arguing and approaches from other teams has had a major psychological effect?
If we think that Perez is a good driver and can win, and he's running around mid-field most of the time, then we could say that Verstappen gets more from the car. If that little edge he has fluctuates then so will his ability to win?
We all know Perez has lost it...... but maybe all the politics in the team and Newey leaving has had a negative effect on his driving? He's never going to admit it, and Red Bull are never going to upset him further by insinuating it's his issue or release data to show it, but maybe all the daddy anger with the team and arguing and approaches from other teams has had a major psychological effect?
If we think that Perez is a good driver and can win, and he's running around mid-field most of the time, then we could say that Verstappen gets more from the car. If that little edge he has fluctuates then so will his ability to win?
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