Are Red bull cheating?

[thegreenhell]

Newey kept all the cheat codes scribbled in his notepad, and since he's no longer at his desk they can't access them.

I don't actually think they were cheating. It's just a combination of the internal upheaval within RBR, including Newey's departure, that has caused them to lose their way a bit at the same time that others have got their st together. McLaren brought a big update to Miami which took them from third fastest to fastest team almost overnight. They overtook Ferrari on pace as well as Red Bull that weekend.

[DarkVeil]

Why was Vettel rumoured to be using traction control in 2013? How would such a system have worked?

[NRS]

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

I still think it is the technical clarification that has caused the difference. The simplest explanation is often correct.

" Indeed, wild conspiracy theories that Red Bull’s drop in form was because it had had to remove an illegal asymmetrical braking system have long been discounted by the governing body – and rival teams do not think there was anything like that going on. "

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-vs-red-...

Do you have some quotes from the other teams and FIA stating Ferrari were using a cheat to pump fuel faster than allowed?

[deadslow]

NRS said:

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

I still think it is the technical clarification that has caused the difference. The simplest explanation is often correct.

" Indeed, wild conspiracy theories that Red Bull’s drop in form was because it had had to remove an illegal asymmetrical braking system have long been discounted by the governing body – and rival teams do not think there was anything like that going on. "

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-vs-red-...

Do you have some quotes from the other teams and FIA stating Ferrari were using a cheat to pump fuel faster than allowed?

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

[MarkwG]

deadslow said:

NRS said:

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

I still think it is the technical clarification that has caused the difference. The simplest explanation is often correct.

" Indeed, wild conspiracy theories that Red Bull’s drop in form was because it had had to remove an illegal asymmetrical braking system have long been discounted by the governing body – and rival teams do not think there was anything like that going on. "

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-vs-red-...

Do you have some quotes from the other teams and FIA stating Ferrari were using a cheat to pump fuel faster than allowed?

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

Perhaps you could highlight that for us - I've watched it through twice & still can't find it - https://youtu.be/JvkzUzpWuo4?si=uMdMiMPZAJ5PRM3T

[NRS]

MarkwG said:

deadslow said:

NRS said:

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

I still think it is the technical clarification that has caused the difference. The simplest explanation is often correct.

" Indeed, wild conspiracy theories that Red Bull’s drop in form was because it had had to remove an illegal asymmetrical braking system have long been discounted by the governing body – and rival teams do not think there was anything like that going on. "

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclaren-vs-red-...

Do you have some quotes from the other teams and FIA stating Ferrari were using a cheat to pump fuel faster than allowed?

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

Perhaps you could highlight that for us - I've watched it through twice & still can't find it - https://youtu.be/JvkzUzpWuo4?si=uMdMiMPZAJ5PRM3T

If it is true then it either suggests that:

RB for some reason didn't complain about or copy the bodywork they knew was a cheat... which would be extremely unusual in F1.

Or RB did complain, and the FIA hid it. In which case it supports the point that several people have made that the FIA will lie/avoid speaking about stuff to avoid damage to the series. For example a possible braking system rule clarification...

[deadslow]

MarkwG said:

Perhaps you could highlight that for us - I've watched it through twice & still can't find it - https://youtu.be/JvkzUzpWuo4?si=uMdMiMPZAJ5PRM3T

53.09 it's only a couple of sentences

[MustangGT]

deadslow said:

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

What a load of bull.

At 53.09 Newey absolutely does not say that Mercedes were running cheat bodywork, he states that RB felt that they were, which is not the same thing at all.

I note you have conveniently forgotten the illegal rear wing that RBR were running until the testing change (not a rule change), that required RBR to remove their wing. If it was legal they would not have needed to remove it.

[deadslow]

MustangGT said:

deadslow said:

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

What a load of bull.

At 53.09 Newey absolutely does not say that Mercedes were running cheat bodywork, he states that RB felt that they were, which is not the same thing at all.

I note you have conveniently forgotten the illegal rear wing that RBR were running until the testing change (not a rule change), that required RBR to remove their wing. If it was legal they would not have needed to remove it.

take a nerve pill, chap. There's no need to be so confrontational.

Newey knows about bodywork, so if he says it was a cheat, that's gonna be good enough for me.

[PhilAsia]

deadslow said:

MarkwG said:

Perhaps you could highlight that for us - I've watched it through twice & still can't find it - https://youtu.be/JvkzUzpWuo4?si=uMdMiMPZAJ5PRM3T

53.09 it's only a couple of sentences

Ah, yes. The year that the FIA decided to tighten the ruling due to Red Bull's controversial rear wing in the Spanish GP, outlawed three races on, in the French GP. Maybe they gave MB the same three race grace - how unfair.

[MustangGT]

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

deadslow said:

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

What a load of bull.

At 53.09 Newey absolutely does not say that Mercedes were running cheat bodywork, he states that RB felt that they were, which is not the same thing at all.

I note you have conveniently forgotten the illegal rear wing that RBR were running until the testing change (not a rule change), that required RBR to remove their wing. If it was legal they would not have needed to remove it.

take a nerve pill, chap. There's no need to be so confrontational.

Newey knows about bodywork, so if he says it was a cheat, that's gonna be good enough for me.

Of course it would, as an RBR supporter.

My question to you is this: If he was so sure, why did the FIA not require MB to change it? After all, RBR would have been sure to raise the issue with them.

[PhilAsia]

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

deadslow said:

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

What a load of bull.

At 53.09 Newey absolutely does not say that Mercedes were running cheat bodywork, he states that RB felt that they were, which is not the same thing at all.

I note you have conveniently forgotten the illegal rear wing that RBR were running until the testing change (not a rule change), that required RBR to remove their wing. If it was legal they would not have needed to remove it.

take a nerve pill, chap. There's no need to be so confrontational.

Newey knows about bodywork, so if he says it was a cheat, that's gonna be good enough for me.

I know about ignoramuses, so if I say I recognise one, is that good enough for you?

[deadslow]

MustangGT said:

Of course it would, as an RBR supporter.

My question to you is this: If he was so sure, why did the FIA not require MB to change it? After all, RBR would have been sure to raise the issue with them.

I do support RB and several other teams including McLaren, Williams, Ferarri, Haas, and quite a few drivers. I mainly enjoy all/most races.

Why did the FIA not take action? How would I know? From Newey's comments, it would seem to have been highlighted to them.

[Sandpit Steve]

deadslow said:

MustangGT said:

Of course it would, as an RBR supporter.

My question to you is this: If he was so sure, why did the FIA not require MB to change it? After all, RBR would have been sure to raise the issue with them.

I do support RB and several other teams including McLaren, Williams, Ferarri, Haas, and quite a few drivers. I mainly enjoy all/most races.

Why did the FIA not take action? How would I know? From Newey's comments, it would seem to have been highlighted to them.

They set a precedent with the Ferrari engine ‘problem’ back in 2018, and now anyone else accused of doing something underhanded is going to insist on the same secretive approach from the FIA.

[MarkwG]

deadslow said:

MarkwG said:

Perhaps you could highlight that for us - I've watched it through twice & still can't find it - https://youtu.be/JvkzUzpWuo4?si=uMdMiMPZAJ5PRM3T

53.09 it's only a couple of sentences

He didn't say they were cheating at all: he said they had concerns. As others have said, if they were that concerned they would have pushed it at the time. I suspect the reason they didn't, is becasue Mercedes had checked it was legal, before adopting it, hence no grounds to argue. What's interesting to me, is how he's modified his stance on the Silverstone crash, & his attitude to Hamilton..

[deadslow]

MarkwG said:

He didn't say they were cheating at all: he said they had concerns. As others have said, if they were that concerned they would have pushed it at the time. I suspect the reason they didn't, is becasue Mercedes had checked it was legal, before adopting it, hence no grounds to argue. What's interesting to me, is how he's modified his stance on the Silverstone crash, & his attitude to Hamilton..

well, you definitely don't know that.

re Silverstone - as he stated in the interview numerous times (unlike many fans) he can let things go and move on. Good quality.

[PhilAsia]

deadslow said:

MarkwG said:

He didn't say they were cheating at all: he said they had concerns. As others have said, if they were that concerned they would have pushed it at the time. I suspect the reason they didn't, is becasue Mercedes had checked it was legal, before adopting it, hence no grounds to argue. What's interesting to me, is how he's modified his stance on the Silverstone crash, & his attitude to Hamilton..

well, you definitely don't know that.

re Silverstone - as he stated in the interview numerous times (unlike many fans) he can let things go and move on. Good quality.

Short-term memory loss?

deadslow said:

No, but there's a good quote from Newey in his long interview with Jake Humphries to say Merc were running cheat bodywork in '21, if that helps.

Just before my post: "I know about ignoramuses, so if I say I recognise one, is that good enough for you?"

Edited by PhilAsia on Wednesday 16th October 15:21

[deadslow]

PhilAsia said:

I know about ignoramuses, so if I say I recognise one, is that good enough for you?

keeping it classy, Phil

[Siao]

MarkwG said:

deadslow said:

MarkwG said:

Perhaps you could highlight that for us - I've watched it through twice & still can't find it - https://youtu.be/JvkzUzpWuo4?si=uMdMiMPZAJ5PRM3T

53.09 it's only a couple of sentences

He didn't say they were cheating at all: he said they had concerns. As others have said, if they were that concerned they would have pushed it at the time. I suspect the reason they didn't, is becasue Mercedes had checked it was legal, before adopting it, hence no grounds to argue. What's interesting to me, is how he's modified his stance on the Silverstone crash, & his attitude to Hamilton..

To play the devil's advocate, he literally says that it was frustrating for them, the lack of willingness from the FIA to properly investigate it. So it seems that they indeed reported whatever concern they had and that the FIA didn't seem to do much. He did call it "dirty games", so is "cheating" so far fetched?

[PhilAsia]

deadslow said:

PhilAsia said:

I know about ignoramuses, so if I say I recognise one, is that good enough for you?

keeping it classy, Phil

I was just checking out if your example worked in other areas my friend.