The Alpine implosion
Discussion
I can see what the upper echelons at Renault are thinking. They get told they have to do away with fossil fuel cars by governments and yet they are in a sport where you have to make a petrol engine.
Honda overreacted to this mixed message and pulled out a few years ago.
All Renault seem to be doing in not wasting time and money on the power unit.
A car is not just an engine after all.
Honda overreacted to this mixed message and pulled out a few years ago.
All Renault seem to be doing in not wasting time and money on the power unit.
A car is not just an engine after all.
Actual footage of Alpine at work https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_fN7dzC7g8/?igsh=Z...
I'm not sure what the joke is meant to be, I thought it was a documentary
I'm not sure what the joke is meant to be, I thought it was a documentary
hondajack85 said:
I can see what the upper echelons at Renault are thinking. They get told they have to do away with fossil fuel cars by governments and yet they are in a sport where you have to make a petrol engine.
Honda overreacted to this mixed message and pulled out a few years ago.
All Renault seem to be doing in not wasting time and money on the power unit.
A car is not just an engine after all.
Ok but surely part of the reason for being in F1 is to showcase your company's capabilities. The fact that Alpine/Renault haven't had a decent F1 engine in the 10 year old hybrid era despite supposedly trying reeks of mismanagement, poor knowledge and a lack of engineering capabilities, none of these qualities is something I'd want in my Alpine sports cars. Honda overreacted to this mixed message and pulled out a few years ago.
All Renault seem to be doing in not wasting time and money on the power unit.
A car is not just an engine after all.
Throwing your hands up in the air and saying we can't build power units anymore we're buying our engines elsewhere from now on only works if the road car side follows suit. This decision (when it comes) is preparing the team for sale plain and simple.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alpine-to-end-f...
It seems like Renault/Alpine have confirmed the switch to Merc engines from 2026, and for the Viry site to concentrate on other projects.
It seems like Renault/Alpine have confirmed the switch to Merc engines from 2026, and for the Viry site to concentrate on other projects.
thegreenhell said:
That reads as if they've scrapped their own engine programme before confirming an alternative supply. It says they're still negotiating with Mercedes over a possible deal.
I'm guessing they have agreed with Mercedes in principle but are still hammering out some of the finer details of the contract. Presumably if Renault ditch their power unit, one of the other suppliers (probably Honda or Audi since they will only have one team each) will be obliged to supply them if the Mercedes deal falls through anyway?
DeejRC said:
Checking back through my Whatsapp messages for the date shows me that this was a done deal before August started. And that info didn’t come from anyone employed at or by Alpine or Renault.
I feel like this was widely rumoured (and considered very likely based on obvious factors) months ago.The reality is that it's a very expensive business, they have zero customers, and their exploits since the start of the hybrid era have, to the layman viewing, pretty much given the impression that Renault can't build an engine. I know it's not that simple, but it kind of is that simple in terms of general brand perception if you're an F1 engine supplier.
DanielSan said:
So Alpine are bringing less to F1 than Andretti would do as of 26?
Exactly, all the teams said that Andretti/GM bringing engines was crucial, but now Alpine are dropping theirs no-one says anything.
I don’t see how they can keep the Alpine or Renault name while powered by Mercedes, even if it does make the car faster and more reliable!
Sandpit Steve said:
DanielSan said:
So Alpine are bringing less to F1 than Andretti would do as of 26?
Exactly, all the teams said that Andretti/GM bringing engines was crucial, but now Alpine are dropping theirs no-one says anything.
I don’t see how they can keep the Alpine or Renault name while powered by Mercedes, even if it does make the car faster and more reliable!
B) because the team is the integrator and operator, an engine is just an equipment to be integrated
C) Because nobody apart from 10 geeks on the internet cares what engine is in there
Cx2- this pt is doubled when the brand is now more interested in electric stuff than petrol stuff.
D) Because money. And F1 has ALWAYS been about money. Not sport, not racing, not geeky fans who think their opinion is important or relevant, but simply money. And long may it remain so.
DeejRC said:
Sandpit Steve said:
DanielSan said:
So Alpine are bringing less to F1 than Andretti would do as of 26?
Exactly, all the teams said that Andretti/GM bringing engines was crucial, but now Alpine are dropping theirs no-one says anything.
I don’t see how they can keep the Alpine or Renault name while powered by Mercedes, even if it does make the car faster and more reliable!
B) because the team is the integrator and operator, an engine is just an equipment to be integrated
C) Because nobody apart from 10 geeks on the internet cares what engine is in there
Cx2- this pt is doubled when the brand is now more interested in electric stuff than petrol stuff.
D) Because money. And F1 has ALWAYS been about money. Not sport, not racing, not geeky fans who think their opinion is important or relevant, but simply money. And long may it remain so.
Reality sucks, the world isn't fair, F1 is a commercial machine, the other teams are rightfully selfish etc etc.
Renault dropping out as an engine supplier will have no impact on the Andretti decision. The point about Andretti not supplying their own engines was just used to partially justify refusing their entry - the truth is the other teams fiercely opposed sharing their slice of the pie with an 11th team. Money talks.
TheDeuce said:
DeejRC said:
Sandpit Steve said:
DanielSan said:
So Alpine are bringing less to F1 than Andretti would do as of 26?
Exactly, all the teams said that Andretti/GM bringing engines was crucial, but now Alpine are dropping theirs no-one says anything.
I don’t see how they can keep the Alpine or Renault name while powered by Mercedes, even if it does make the car faster and more reliable!
B) because the team is the integrator and operator, an engine is just an equipment to be integrated
C) Because nobody apart from 10 geeks on the internet cares what engine is in there
Cx2- this pt is doubled when the brand is now more interested in electric stuff than petrol stuff.
D) Because money. And F1 has ALWAYS been about money. Not sport, not racing, not geeky fans who think their opinion is important or relevant, but simply money. And long may it remain so.
Reality sucks, the world isn't fair, F1 is a commercial machine, the other teams are rightfully selfish etc etc.
Renault dropping out as an engine supplier will have no impact on the Andretti decision. The point about Andretti not supplying their own engines was just used to partially justify refusing their entry - the truth is the other teams fiercely opposed sharing their slice of the pie with an 11th team. Money talks.
patmahe said:
Ah right, hard to keep up, so do we think that Alpine is using Ryan's money to turn the team into some sort of lifeboat for quality people who have for whatever reason found themselves as free agents? Binotto would be a good signing, always thought his sacking was unfair. So far Fred hasn't been the saviour they thought he would be (though maybe that will come in 2024).
The whole thing at Alpine seems very knee jerk and political and makes the team's and Renault's upper management look very incompetent if they originally appointed all of these people who have suddenly been deemed unsuitable. I can't imagine this type of thing happening at Red Bull or Mercedes, the types of teams that Alpine say they want to emulate, patience and continuity with minor adjustments along the way seems to be key to success in F1.
As I understood it there was no money. They gave him a percentage for his media presence and other investors that may follow him into F1. The whole thing at Alpine seems very knee jerk and political and makes the team's and Renault's upper management look very incompetent if they originally appointed all of these people who have suddenly been deemed unsuitable. I can't imagine this type of thing happening at Red Bull or Mercedes, the types of teams that Alpine say they want to emulate, patience and continuity with minor adjustments along the way seems to be key to success in F1.
Shame for the engine guys at renault but it seems they were unlikey to produce the best lump in 2026.
Mclaren has show what utter b
ks the Ron Dennis cant win as a customer theory is. Probably sealed the deal.
He basically chucked his team on the tip by dropping the mercedes engine for hondas baby steps.
What makes me laugh is you cant even see the flippin engine. 24 races of invisibility lol.
Mclaren has show what utter b
ks the Ron Dennis cant win as a customer theory is. Probably sealed the deal.He basically chucked his team on the tip by dropping the mercedes engine for hondas baby steps.
What makes me laugh is you cant even see the flippin engine. 24 races of invisibility lol.
hondajack85 said:
Shame for the engine guys at renault but it seems they were unlikey to produce the best lump in 2026.
Mclaren has show what utter bks the Ron Dennis cant win as a customer theory is. Probably sealed the deal.
He basically chucked his team on the tip by dropping the mercedes engine for hondas baby steps.
What makes me laugh is you cant even see the flippin engine. 24 races of invisibility lol.
I do think Mclaren beating Renault with their own engine was a tipping point. The Renault PU was already a bit of a laughing stock, but then to be beaten by another team using it meant their car became a laughing stock too... I think that was a tipping point for the Renault name to depart the sport, now followed by the engine - it's just not worth them taking another expensive gamble on the new PU regs, knowing full well they'll only have the embattled Alpine team to run it anyway.Mclaren has show what utter b
ks the Ron Dennis cant win as a customer theory is. Probably sealed the deal.He basically chucked his team on the tip by dropping the mercedes engine for hondas baby steps.
What makes me laugh is you cant even see the flippin engine. 24 races of invisibility lol.
The bottom line is that for over a decade, Renault have had nothing but bad press for their car brand from their F1 involvement. Slow cars, unreliable and/or uncompetitive engines.. F1 involvement regardless of performance can make sense in terms of cost vs brand exposure these days (Red Bull don't need to win for their marketing to be more worth the cost), but not if you're a road car manufacturer.
End of the road, for now. I doubt Renault are truly done with F1 longer term, the Frenchies quite like to be involved and the FIA will support more French involvement in the future, at some point.
thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
DeejRC said:
Sandpit Steve said:
DanielSan said:
So Alpine are bringing less to F1 than Andretti would do as of 26?
Exactly, all the teams said that Andretti/GM bringing engines was crucial, but now Alpine are dropping theirs no-one says anything.
I don’t see how they can keep the Alpine or Renault name while powered by Mercedes, even if it does make the car faster and more reliable!
B) because the team is the integrator and operator, an engine is just an equipment to be integrated
C) Because nobody apart from 10 geeks on the internet cares what engine is in there
Cx2- this pt is doubled when the brand is now more interested in electric stuff than petrol stuff.
D) Because money. And F1 has ALWAYS been about money. Not sport, not racing, not geeky fans who think their opinion is important or relevant, but simply money. And long may it remain so.
Reality sucks, the world isn't fair, F1 is a commercial machine, the other teams are rightfully selfish etc etc.
Renault dropping out as an engine supplier will have no impact on the Andretti decision. The point about Andretti not supplying their own engines was just used to partially justify refusing their entry - the truth is the other teams fiercely opposed sharing their slice of the pie with an 11th team. Money talks.
Perhaps they still will buy the team, these things take time and for all we know, the detachment of the PU production was the final part of the process to make the sale possible.
I can't think of a reason Andretti wouldn't buy the team tbh - it doesn't need to be a good team, Andretti has the money to modernise the entire outfit and attract new talent. I know there is a theory they want their team to be based in the States but... that would put them at a big disadvantage. Just buy Renault/Alpine, it's the only way in it seems.
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