Discussion
DOCG said:
Given how much Norris crumbled under pressure this year, should McLaren favour Piastri for next season?
Despite everyone rooting for OP, he just isn’t fast enough over a 23 race season to beat Lando. He’ll have flashes of brilliance and Lando will buckle under pressure, which is to be expected going up against a 3 x WDC, but he’s the faster driver and has the measure of OP. There’s no way that OP can come back from a 2 season drubbing to challenge Lando - at least not in 25. 26 maybe if the car suits his style and Lando struggles.
maz8062 said:
DOCG said:
Given how much Norris crumbled under pressure this year, should McLaren favour Piastri for next season?
Despite everyone rooting for OP, he just isn’t fast enough over a 23 race season to beat Lando. He’ll have flashes of brilliance and Lando will buckle under pressure, which is to be expected going up against a 3 x WDC, but he’s the faster driver and has the measure of OP. There’s no way that OP can come back from a 2 season drubbing to challenge Lando - at least not in 25. 26 maybe if the car suits his style and Lando struggles.
Another way of looking at it would be that in his first season, as rookie, he had around 50% of Lando's points. This season, it's more like 80% adjusted for both drivers handing the other a place.
Where does that trajectory point to? It would be hard to say, if OP didn't have a track record of getting comfortable in a series and then dominating...
All I have seen from McLarens actions is that they most definitely don't agree with your assessment of OP's future prospects. If they did, they would have slung the guy under the bus many more times this season, and would have done so dispassionately, not pandered and bargained to avoid causing an upset. They plainly want to build OP up and see what he can do.
TheDeuce said:
All I have seen from McLarens actions is that they most definitely don't agree with your assessment of OP's future prospects. If they did, they would have slung the guy under the bus many more times this season, and would have done so dispassionately, not pandered and bargained to avoid causing an upset. They plainly want to build OP up and see what he can do.
I agree with most of your assessment - Piastri has done very well and is the best rookie we've seen in a few years, possibly since Verstappen. But I don't think you can read too much into McLaren's actions. Despite what some disgruntled Aussies thought at the time, the team persisted with Danny Ric long beyond the point where it was clear he was miles off Norris.Most of McLaren's actions (failing to get fully behind Norris's potential title challenge as soon as it was clear to all that they'd caught Red Bull) were borne out of a lack of title winning mindset. I don't know how next season will play out, but I expect Norris to be far tougher mentally and I expect the team to more readily get behind whichever driver is in with a shout, if it's a close fight.
It's not about throwing someone under the bus or not, it's about a different mindset. McLaren simply didn't have it this season. Hopefully lessons will be learned, whoever it ultimately benefits.
Piastri's season has had moments of genius, but equally his inexperience, put great results for both himself and McLaren in jeopardy. Monza being the prime example. He definitely had the pace over Lando, and the team said no overtaking at the first corner. Instead he sent it in to the second chicane. Pushing Lando back into the grips of Chuck Leclerc, paving the way for a famous Ferrari victory, whilst they were probably actually out to lunch.
But, once he started to play by the McLaren Papya Rules nonsense his performances lost their sparkle somewhat.
However, it's only the dude's second season, if you take Alonso, Hamilton out of the equation, his rise is still meteoric and deeply impressive.
Still, with some of newbies arriving next year, he may need to watch his back..
But, once he started to play by the McLaren Papya Rules nonsense his performances lost their sparkle somewhat.
However, it's only the dude's second season, if you take Alonso, Hamilton out of the equation, his rise is still meteoric and deeply impressive.
Still, with some of newbies arriving next year, he may need to watch his back..
TheDeuce said:
maz8062 said:
DOCG said:
Given how much Norris crumbled under pressure this year, should McLaren favour Piastri for next season?
Despite everyone rooting for OP, he just isn’t fast enough over a 23 race season to beat Lando. He’ll have flashes of brilliance and Lando will buckle under pressure, which is to be expected going up against a 3 x WDC, but he’s the faster driver and has the measure of OP. There’s no way that OP can come back from a 2 season drubbing to challenge Lando - at least not in 25. 26 maybe if the car suits his style and Lando struggles.
Another way of looking at it would be that in his first season, as rookie, he had around 50% of Lando's points. This season, it's more like 80% adjusted for both drivers handing the other a place.
Where does that trajectory point to? It would be hard to say, if OP didn't have a track record of getting comfortable in a series and then dominating...
All I have seen from McLarens actions is that they most definitely don't agree with your assessment of OP's future prospects. If they did, they would have slung the guy under the bus many more times this season, and would have done so dispassionately, not pandered and bargained to avoid causing an upset. They plainly want to build OP up and see what he can do.
2025 is a big year for him. If he loses to Lando again I predict his star will start to fade never to shine bright again.
maz8062 said:
So, what's the consensus on OP as a future WDC.? FWIW, I think he can be fast at certain tracks, very fast, but over a 24-race season, I'm not sure he has what it takes. Not quite a Webber 2.0 or Ricciardo in his heyday, but a solid driver who deserves his seat in F1.
If McLaren stay competitive next season then we will get a better idea of what he is capable of, I think he has a good head on his shoulders, strikes me as very calm, cool and collected. Maybe he’s destined to be a strong No.2, but too soon to judge for me. I think Oscar has a much cooler head than Lando BUT Lando is getting better. Look at Abu, the entire team basically on his shoulders and he did not put a foot wrong. impressive.
If you asked me half way through this year I would say Oscar will pip Lando next season but now if Lando can keep his head the way he did more recently, I suspect he will stay on top of his team mate.
If you asked me half way through this year I would say Oscar will pip Lando next season but now if Lando can keep his head the way he did more recently, I suspect he will stay on top of his team mate.
I think people forget how much more experience Lando has over Oscar. I don't think Oscar is the second coming but then neither do I Lando. Oscar needs to work on his one lap pace, the greatest are rarely poor qualifiers.
Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
Jasandjules said:
I think Oscar has a much cooler head than Lando BUT Lando is getting better. Look at Abu, the entire team basically on his shoulders and he did not put a foot wrong. impressive.
If you asked me half way through this year I would say Oscar will pip Lando next season but now if Lando can keep his head the way he did more recently, I suspect he will stay on top of his team mate.
Lando wasn't under threat or pressure to be aggressive; nobody sniffing his rear end or worry about going wheel to wheel.If you asked me half way through this year I would say Oscar will pip Lando next season but now if Lando can keep his head the way he did more recently, I suspect he will stay on top of his team mate.
I've seen a number of posts saying Lando should be ruthless. I don't like that word as it infers going over the limit of what's acceptable.
Oscar has potential but needs to be improve with consistency with quali and race pace.
I'm keeping an open mind. It's possible he may not improve or reach his potential as we've seen recentlyThe Wire disc 2 with Danny Ricc and Jean Alesi in the past.
PRO5T said:
I think people forget how much more experience Lando has over Oscar. I don't think Oscar is the second coming but then neither do I Lando. Oscar needs to work on his one lap pace, the greatest are rarely poor qualifiers.
Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
Norris was much closer to Sainz in his second season than Piastri has been this year. And qualifying as you say was pretty even which hasn't been the case for piastri.Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
isaldiri said:
PRO5T said:
I think people forget how much more experience Lando has over Oscar. I don't think Oscar is the second coming but then neither do I Lando. Oscar needs to work on his one lap pace, the greatest are rarely poor qualifiers.
Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
Norris was much closer to Sainz in his second season than Piastri has been this year. And qualifying as you say was pretty even which hasn't been the case for piastri.Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
PRO5T said:
isaldiri said:
PRO5T said:
I think people forget how much more experience Lando has over Oscar. I don't think Oscar is the second coming but then neither do I Lando. Oscar needs to work on his one lap pace, the greatest are rarely poor qualifiers.
Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
Norris was much closer to Sainz in his second season than Piastri has been this year. And qualifying as you say was pretty even which hasn't been the case for piastri.Lando was beaten by Carlos in his first couple of seasons but was always there in qualifying, then took it to Ricciardo and beat him.
I think Oscar's 2025 season will be pivotal.
Abu was his 47th Grand Prix, so in old money that’s what, nearly 3 years of experience? (As I have mentioned before) Oscar was slaughtered by Lando in qually this year - one of the largest margins on the grid. In races too, the stats are quite revealing. Yes Lando has more experience, but let’s not forget he was mostly in a crap car up against Carlos (who he was on a par with), and as we know, he then systematically destroyed Daniel over two seasons. Yes he made mistakes - Sochi - but he’s really stepped up in the past two seasons.
I like Oscar, however, he has shown flashes of real talent, and he can certainly get his elbows out. But the real telling stats in my opinion are that when Lando is out front, Oscar is more often than not way way behind.
I do think they will be closer next year, and it will be make or break year for Oscar. If he cannot get on terms with Lando over 3 seasons, and 70 odd races, then his stock will surely go down.
PRO5T said:
Indeed. I must say Oscar's qualifying has been one of the disappointments of the season, I fully expected him to get on top of it by the end of the year but it hasn't happened. It's a cause for concern at the moment but if he doesn't sharpen up next season I think it will become a problem.
For me it's less being outqualified more often than not that is the issue but more than when Piastri is not quite 'on it' for the weekend, he's miles off Norris. When he is the better driver, it's usually not by that much. If he's not quite as quick in qualifying as Norris (who is superb at it after all), being relatively (much) more ruthless in races can bridge the gap if the difference is small. The issue is that he's (still) got quite a lot of races where he's basically nowhere. I'd thought after his mid summer spell up to Hungary, disappearing like say in China had been more or less ironed out... but then he got flattened in Zandvoort and in a couple of the later races as well so.... not quite. Piastri clearly has got lots of ability but he's not definitely not got the better of Norris just yet as some were adamant he would in mid-season. I have to say that Oscar's spin at Abu Dhabi may give Max something to think about next year, it was a very clear statement, that Oscar was not going to just let Max steam roll though. Should he? Possibly, as I'm sure they would have got the place back. However, I'm the future, it may work to OP's advantage in the inevitable F1 mind games.
I doubt it will make any difference to Mad Max.
If he gets a wheel on the inside he's happy to crash as Lando knows from Austria, if he is on the outside line and ends up in the tyre wall he'll just b
h about it as usual - thank you Lewis at Silverstone in 2021!
All Oscar needs to learn is that Max doesn't seem to mind crashing, so just make sure he is on the outside line when it happens.
If he gets a wheel on the inside he's happy to crash as Lando knows from Austria, if he is on the outside line and ends up in the tyre wall he'll just b
h about it as usual - thank you Lewis at Silverstone in 2021! All Oscar needs to learn is that Max doesn't seem to mind crashing, so just make sure he is on the outside line when it happens.
Piastri signs new long-term contract with McLaren - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cd92...
Maxdecel said:
Piastri signs new long-term contract with McLaren - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/cd92...
Just posted the same on the silly season thread. They're putting full faith in him and I'm not at all surprised.TheDeuce said:
Just posted the same on the silly season thread. They're putting full faith in him and I'm not at all surprised.
Aaagh I looked for other posts but forgot that thread Doh !Agreed, now established in the team; helped win CC. Just have a slight concern over when team orders may be requested ? Time will tell.
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