Brawn: The Impossible Formula 1 Story
Discussion
520TORQUES said:
The DD was mentioned by Brawn as an issue of the new rules the previous year in a TP meeting, Williams, Toyota and Honda (now Brawn) went with it using their own interpretation. The Honda engineer who did the work for the Brawn concept was working at Super Aguri (Honda B Team) at the time, when they folded he was moved to working on the Honda project.
I'll have to dig it out but I'm sure in the Brawn/Parr book they said it was a Toyota engineer, nothing to do with Brawn himself from the technical side of things and the TP meetings were after the initial development where he mentioned the potential loophole and the downforce that could result.Edited by GlobalRacer on Tuesday 21st November 09:37
520TORQUES said:
GlobalRacer said:
Don't take it so literally. Coming from nowhere doesn't mean that nothing had been done beforehand. It's just an expression to say that it was unexpected. After all how many people, even with the knowledge of Honda spending 2008 developing the car, would have said it would do what it did in 2009? The bets didn't start being placed until after it's first test.
Also, lets not forget, that the "double diffuser" was a Toyota concept and they had it as well as Williams plus, of course, Brawn had to make a lot of compromises to the car to fit the Mercedes engine.
The DD was mentioned by Brawn as an issue of the new rules the previous year in a TP meeting, Williams, Toyota and Honda (now Brawn) went with it using their own interpretation. The Honda engineer who did the work for the Brawn concept was working at Super Aguri (Honda B Team) at the time, when they folded he was moved to working on the Honda project.Also, lets not forget, that the "double diffuser" was a Toyota concept and they had it as well as Williams plus, of course, Brawn had to make a lot of compromises to the car to fit the Mercedes engine.
The most amusing was the way the Brawn legal head stitched up Bernie, she was one of the shareholders of the management buyout and did a great job.
I placed a bet on Jenson, Rubens and Brawn winning the championship the day of the Silverstone shakedown after i saw some video of the car in that first run, it looked totally hooked up. Won me £2500.
This is the footage i saw.People talk about the double diffuser without looking at how the front wing worked; it was probably just as big if not bigger in terms of performance (an outwash front wing) as the DD.
People remember the DD because it was the subject of the legal case.
A guy I used to work with moved from the tech firm we were in, to BAR. He was there through the Honda years, through Brawn and into the Merc ones (he's still there now!). Talk about a change in pace from corporate IT...
Fonzey said:
Enjoyed that.
Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Dunno about 'sharp '. As usual he spouts his gnomic nonsense , as often as not to a fawning listener. And this Putin fan reminded us (again) how much he loves dictators. The man recently convicted of tax fraud on £400 million , and the man also most memorably described as a pensioner in an Andy Warhol wig. Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Watched the first one, the genuine enthusiasm that Keanu has for the subject is infectious, you'd never think there's a man worth $380M, really likeable guy. In stark contrast Montezemolo, what a self absorbed piece of crap! Sums up how a lot business leaders behave in Italy, the arrogance and irony of the same man who is currently slating Ferrari and is quick to point out where Brawn gained an advantage but appears to have forgotten about some recent Ferrari history 
It's great so far.
It's great so far.
carlo996 said:
Watched the first one, the genuine enthusiasm that Keanu has for the subject is infectious, you'd never think there's a man worth $380M, really likeable guy. In stark contrast Montezemolo, what a self absorbed piece of crap! Sums up how a lot business leaders behave in Italy, the arrogance and irony of the same man who is currently slating Ferrari and is quick to point out where Brawn gained an advantage but appears to have forgotten about some recent Ferrari history
It's great so far.
The funny thing is, they are about as rich as each other but comport themselves so differently.It's great so far.
coppice said:
Fonzey said:
Enjoyed that.
Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Dunno about 'sharp '. As usual he spouts his gnomic nonsense , as often as not to a fawning listener. And this Putin fan reminded us (again) how much he loves dictators. The man recently convicted of tax fraud on £400 million , and the man also most memorably described as a pensioner in an Andy Warhol wig. Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Oilchange said:
coppice said:
Fonzey said:
Enjoyed that.
Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Dunno about 'sharp '. As usual he spouts his gnomic nonsense , as often as not to a fawning listener. And this Putin fan reminded us (again) how much he loves dictators. The man recently convicted of tax fraud on £400 million , and the man also most memorably described as a pensioner in an Andy Warhol wig. Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Even with a massive fine he's still a billionaire; 2.5bn?
carlo996 said:
Watched the first one, the genuine enthusiasm that Keanu has for the subject is infectious, you'd never think there's a man worth $380M, really likeable guy. In stark contrast Montezemolo, what a self absorbed piece of crap! Sums up how a lot business leaders behave in Italy, the arrogance and irony of the same man who is currently slating Ferrari and is quick to point out where Brawn gained an advantage but appears to have forgotten about some recent Ferrari history
It's great so far.
Good call on Keanu. Love the guy. How does your hero Horner stack up against him?It's great so far.
CraigyMc said:
Oilchange said:
coppice said:
Fonzey said:
Enjoyed that.
Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Dunno about 'sharp '. As usual he spouts his gnomic nonsense , as often as not to a fawning listener. And this Putin fan reminded us (again) how much he loves dictators. The man recently convicted of tax fraud on £400 million , and the man also most memorably described as a pensioner in an Andy Warhol wig. Bernie is still sharp as ever. Alien.
Even with a massive fine he's still a
...CraigyMc said:
He's 93; I don't know many people that age who are still sharp.
Even with a massive fine he's still a billionaire; 2.5bn?
Even with a massive fine he's still a billionaire; 2.5bn?
Oh he's rich all right . So what ? So is his pal Putin . As for nonagenarians - a friend of ours is a year older and is as smart as he' s ever been - which is very. And , unlike Ecclestone , he is both charming and honest.
On topic - this was a masterful bit of television. Not just the story, but the production values and the editing. The piecing together of comments from different people was handled superbly. Intercutting Button's comments about his dad with Anthony Hamilton's pieces was uplifting, turning what could have been a sob-story into a motivational one.
Cutting between Bernie, Brawn, Brundle, Horner and Montezemolo all giving opinions on the 'legality' of the double diffusor gave the story perfect balance while revealing the vested interests of each party.
I also loved the re-enactment of key scenes from the story, culminating always with Keanu Reeves as the fly-on-the-wall, taking the viewer's perspective.
But props to whoever edited the sound. Not usually a priority in these sorts of documentaries, but I've got a quality surround-sound system, and I jumped from my seat when the piece on the Malaysian Grand Prix featured bad weather and several rumbles of thunder came at me from above.
With any real-life subject matter it is easy and all-too-commonplace to throw something substandard together and just rely on the fans' interest to get an audience, or over-dramatise and create false jeopardy, so it is a rare treat to get something so well crafted.
Cutting between Bernie, Brawn, Brundle, Horner and Montezemolo all giving opinions on the 'legality' of the double diffusor gave the story perfect balance while revealing the vested interests of each party.
I also loved the re-enactment of key scenes from the story, culminating always with Keanu Reeves as the fly-on-the-wall, taking the viewer's perspective.
But props to whoever edited the sound. Not usually a priority in these sorts of documentaries, but I've got a quality surround-sound system, and I jumped from my seat when the piece on the Malaysian Grand Prix featured bad weather and several rumbles of thunder came at me from above.
With any real-life subject matter it is easy and all-too-commonplace to throw something substandard together and just rely on the fans' interest to get an audience, or over-dramatise and create false jeopardy, so it is a rare treat to get something so well crafted.
Edited by Evercross on Friday 24th November 12:22
A good watch. I dislike the way that it is edited into 5-second sound-bites and the DtS style of sound over-dubbing. These were the days when Ted Kravitz could pose a sensible question. James Allen was a much better commentator that the village idiot, Croft.
Two things that struck me was just how ugly these cars were. The rear wing looks stupidly small. The other was the role that Bridgestone tyres played. I tend to think of them being bullet-proof in all circumstances but seeing Button’s smooth driving style being punished on cold tracks, unlike Ruben’s, reminded me of this weekend where Lewis could not generate heat in the same way as George.
Bernie takes the opportunity to remind everyone what an evil little st he really is. Not sure why Reeves was chosen for his role.
A must-watch for any F1 fan
Two things that struck me was just how ugly these cars were. The rear wing looks stupidly small. The other was the role that Bridgestone tyres played. I tend to think of them being bullet-proof in all circumstances but seeing Button’s smooth driving style being punished on cold tracks, unlike Ruben’s, reminded me of this weekend where Lewis could not generate heat in the same way as George.
Bernie takes the opportunity to remind everyone what an evil little s
t he really is. Not sure why Reeves was chosen for his role.A must-watch for any F1 fan
rdjohn said:
...thing that struck me was just how ugly these cars were. The rear wing looks stupidly small.
Personally I think it looks more elegant than today's offerings, particularly in that simple white livery.rdjohn said:
Bernie takes the opportunity to remind everyone what an evil little st he really is.
t he really is. 
rdjohn said:
Not sure why Reeves was chosen for his role.
He was an Exec Producer so suspect it was his pet project from the start (he's a big F1 fan) and he got it financed on that basis. I thought his part was brilliantly done, inquisitive without fawning.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff