The Official F1 2025 silly season *contains speculation*

The Official F1 2025 silly season *contains speculation*

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Discussion

Leithen

12,453 posts

277 months

Tuesday 7th January
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GCH said:
TheDeuce said:
Even if they're a bit... not very good? My memory of Ericsson is that he achieved next to nothing in several years in F1 and was then unsurprisingly let go. I don't recall thinking about him since he shuffled off tbh.

Perhaps I'm being harsh and misremembering!?
He did win the Indy 500... he is not at the head of the field, but by no means at the back.
At best marginally better than Grosjean. To be fair, they are all very good. But equally, it must be depressing to watch Will Power win at the same time.

Sandpit Steve

11,555 posts

84 months

Wednesday 8th January
quotequote all
Leithen said:
At best marginally better than Grosjean. To be fair, they are all very good. But equally, it must be depressing to watch Will Power win at the same time.
At least Ericsson never binned it behind the safety car!

To be fair, anyone who can get a super licence is better than 99.99% of people to race cars. Even Mazepin - probably the worst pay-driver of recent years - still had to put in the hours of testing and actually get results in F3 and F2.

Anyone with a decade of F1 experience should be more than capable of doing the sim work.

Killer2005

20,019 posts

238 months

Wednesday 8th January
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Spa renewed but appears to be rotating as not included for 2028 and 2030.

TheDeuce

26,167 posts

76 months

Wednesday 8th January
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
Leithen said:
At best marginally better than Grosjean. To be fair, they are all very good. But equally, it must be depressing to watch Will Power win at the same time.
At least Ericsson never binned it behind the safety car!

To be fair, anyone who can get a super licence is better than 99.99% of people to race cars. Even Mazepin - probably the worst pay-driver of recent years - still had to put in the hours of testing and actually get results in F3 and F2.

Anyone with a decade of F1 experience should be more than capable of doing the sim work.
Didn't Mazepin do a load of private paid for development and training driving an actual 2017 Merc F1 car around the globe (unofficial sessions - in addition to official test days) in order to improve his F2 game? He still only came 5th in 2020. I think the theory is that by getting plenty of practice at F1 driving, F2 becomes somewhat easier by comparison - anyone who's ever played snooker on a full sized table and done 'OK' will find that they're suddenly remarkably good on the local pool table at the pub. Perhaps it's a stretch to give too much credit to F1 seat time for an improvement in F2, but of course most F2 drivers don't get anything like so much 1 on 1 training and seat time in F1 in advance of actually demonstrating serious talent in F2.


thegreenhell

17,973 posts

229 months

Wednesday 8th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Didn't Mazepin do a load of private paid for development and training driving an actual 2017 Merc F1 car around the globe (unofficial sessions - in addition to official test days) in order to improve his F2 game? He still only came 5th in 2020. I think the theory is that by getting plenty of practice at F1 driving, F2 becomes somewhat easier by comparison - anyone who's ever played snooker on a full sized table and done 'OK' will find that they're suddenly remarkably good on the local pool table at the pub. Perhaps it's a stretch to give too much credit to F1 seat time for an improvement in F2, but of course most F2 drivers don't get anything like so much 1 on 1 training and seat time in F1 in advance of actually demonstrating serious talent in F2.
It didn't seem to help Antonelli or Bearman last year.

TheDeuce

26,167 posts

76 months

Wednesday 8th January
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
Didn't Mazepin do a load of private paid for development and training driving an actual 2017 Merc F1 car around the globe (unofficial sessions - in addition to official test days) in order to improve his F2 game? He still only came 5th in 2020. I think the theory is that by getting plenty of practice at F1 driving, F2 becomes somewhat easier by comparison - anyone who's ever played snooker on a full sized table and done 'OK' will find that they're suddenly remarkably good on the local pool table at the pub. Perhaps it's a stretch to give too much credit to F1 seat time for an improvement in F2, but of course most F2 drivers don't get anything like so much 1 on 1 training and seat time in F1 in advance of actually demonstrating serious talent in F2.
It didn't seem to help Antonelli or Bearman last year.
True! but They had far less F1 seat time than Mazepin apparently did. Supposedly he was with Merc at several circuits in 2019 if not before having effectively private tuition and seat time in the 2017 car. All privately funded unofficial test time - literal hire of the circuit and whatever deal his Dad struck with the team to make it worthwhile.

He perhaps more or less compensated for lack of ability with an unusual level of access and practice, in order to get his super license points. I'm suggesting the SL system might not be as robust as intended when it comes to keeping unsuitable drivers away from F1.

thegreenhell

17,973 posts

229 months

Thursday 9th January
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It looks like Alpine are poised to sign Colapinto as reserve driver, and it's reported that Doohan has some strict performance clauses to meet to avoid being replaced at any point. With Flavio calling the shots there, it wouldn't be a surprise to see some musical chairs during the season.

Nova Gyna

1,837 posts

36 months

Thursday 9th January
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
It looks like Alpine are poised to sign Colapinto as reserve driver, and it's reported that Doohan has some strict performance clauses to meet to avoid being replaced at any point. With Flavio calling the shots there, it wouldn't be a surprise to see some musical chairs during the season.
Having a crash-prone driver on the books could potentially come in handy for him at some point too.

KaraK

13,305 posts

219 months

Thursday 9th January
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Nova Gyna said:
thegreenhell said:
It looks like Alpine are poised to sign Colapinto as reserve driver, and it's reported that Doohan has some strict performance clauses to meet to avoid being replaced at any point. With Flavio calling the shots there, it wouldn't be a surprise to see some musical chairs during the season.
Having a crash-prone driver on the books could potentially come in handy for him at some point too.
Notify the burn ward rofl

TheDeuce

26,167 posts

76 months

Thursday 9th January
quotequote all
Nova Gyna said:
thegreenhell said:
It looks like Alpine are poised to sign Colapinto as reserve driver, and it's reported that Doohan has some strict performance clauses to meet to avoid being replaced at any point. With Flavio calling the shots there, it wouldn't be a surprise to see some musical chairs during the season.
Having a crash-prone driver on the books could potentially come in handy for him at some point too.
Harsh, yet fair.

PRO5T

5,144 posts

35 months

Friday 10th January
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It looks like Doohan is doomed to failure before the season even starts, the fanfare around Franco, only a day or so after Flav was telling anyone who’ll listen that doohan will be gone if he doesn’t perform doesn’t look good.

Sandpit Steve

11,555 posts

84 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
Didn't Mazepin do a load of private paid for development and training driving an actual 2017 Merc F1 car around the globe (unofficial sessions - in addition to official test days) in order to improve his F2 game? He still only came 5th in 2020. I think the theory is that by getting plenty of practice at F1 driving, F2 becomes somewhat easier by comparison - anyone who's ever played snooker on a full sized table and done 'OK' will find that they're suddenly remarkably good on the local pool table at the pub. Perhaps it's a stretch to give too much credit to F1 seat time for an improvement in F2, but of course most F2 drivers don't get anything like so much 1 on 1 training and seat time in F1 in advance of actually demonstrating serious talent in F2.
It didn't seem to help Antonelli or Bearman last year.
True! but They had far less F1 seat time than Mazepin apparently did. Supposedly he was with Merc at several circuits in 2019 if not before having effectively private tuition and seat time in the 2017 car. All privately funded unofficial test time - literal hire of the circuit and whatever deal his Dad struck with the team to make it worthwhile.

He perhaps more or less compensated for lack of ability with an unusual level of access and practice, in order to get his super license points. I'm suggesting the SL system might not be as robust as intended when it comes to keeping unsuitable drivers away from F1.
Yes Mazepin did an awful lot of private testing in old cars, costing millions, but my point is that he did improve his game and did actually get the results in F2 required for the Super Licence. Now we could argue that he wasn’t really up to F1 standards, but he did put in the work.

The old system meant that any Tom, Dick, or Max, could just turn up with a car on Friday morning and try to qualify for the race.

Westyn

63 posts

19 months

Friday 10th January
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Aston Martin has appointed Andy Cowell as Team Principal in addition to his duties as CEO.


ajprice

29,860 posts

206 months

Friday 10th January
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Westyn said:
Aston Martin has appointed Andy Cowell as Team Principal in addition to his duties as CEO.

Mike Krack moved to Chief Trackside Officer, working on per race car performance. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/aston-martin-f1...

entropy

5,798 posts

213 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes Mazepin did an awful lot of private testing in old cars, costing millions, but my point is that he did improve his game and did actually get the results in F2 required for the Super Licence. Now we could argue that he wasn’t really up to F1 standards, but he did put in the work.

The old system meant that any Tom, Dick, or Max, could just turn up with a car on Friday morning and try to qualify for the race.
I'm not sure if the Super License has any relevance these days.

In the past pay drivers had greater notoriety but the financial and driver landscape has changed since the early 90s.

Racing is much more expensive, greater onus on drivers getting backing. Lots of rich daddies (usually it seems). Pay drivers are only called out as such based on merit - no one complains about Bearman or Norris.

Karting is much more professionaly run, kids start racing as soon as they can reach the pedals and its possible to start F1 in your late teens and we end with kneejerk reaction to Max Verstappen. If you're good enough then you're good enough. I find points system ludicrous - I just don't see the point in it.

Forester1965

3,293 posts

13 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
ajprice said:
Mike Krack moved to Chief Trackside Officer, working on per race car performance. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/aston-martin-f1...
He'll be gone before the end of the 2025 season.

CanoeSniffer

945 posts

97 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
entropy said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes Mazepin did an awful lot of private testing in old cars, costing millions, but my point is that he did improve his game and did actually get the results in F2 required for the Super Licence. Now we could argue that he wasn’t really up to F1 standards, but he did put in the work.

The old system meant that any Tom, Dick, or Max, could just turn up with a car on Friday morning and try to qualify for the race.
I'm not sure if the Super License has any relevance these days.

In the past pay drivers had greater notoriety but the financial and driver landscape has changed since the early 90s.

Racing is much more expensive, greater onus on drivers getting backing. Lots of rich daddies (usually it seems). Pay drivers are only called out as such based on merit - no one complains about Bearman or Norris.

Karting is much more professionaly run, kids start racing as soon as they can reach the pedals and its possible to start F1 in your late teens and we end with kneejerk reaction to Max Verstappen. If you're good enough then you're good enough. I find points system ludicrous - I just don't see the point in it.
They’re all there by means of enormous amounts of money, and they’ve all had the best possible access to seat time in the best possible training grounds en route, enough to make any of them competent almost regardless of ability. Seat time in any motorsport is so expensive that access overtakes talent as a metric very quickly, look at Stroll, that is a driver with a genuine lack of natural aptitude and ability, but sheer exposure has made him a genuinely competent F1 driver at this point. Tens of thousands of young drivers with more talent will have fallen off the ladder in his time coming up. Probably the most naturally talented drivers ever to have been born never got beyond rental karting due to lack of money. It’s a horrible sport in that regard.

Maxdecel

1,640 posts

43 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
CanoeSniffer said:
...... Tens of thousands of young drivers with more talent will have fallen off the ladder in his time coming up. Probably the most naturally talented drivers ever to have been born never got beyond rental karting due to lack of money. It’s a horrible sport in that regard.
Here's one who thankfully seems to be still on the ladder, noticed the name cropping up many times last year then discovered a resume of his path to this years GB 3 championship. Great story, Mum & Dad in a Van Karting living on beans on toast eventually races Fiesta's. Had a sim for the circuits and Rokit ran a sim competition to find a talent where only the final mattered, nothing else.
Apolgies as it's not F1 - 25 but hopefully a few years hence.

PhilAsia

5,196 posts

85 months

Saturday 11th January
quotequote all
Maxdecel said:
CanoeSniffer said:
...... Tens of thousands of young drivers with more talent will have fallen off the ladder in his time coming up. Probably the most naturally talented drivers ever to have been born never got beyond rental karting due to lack of money. It’s a horrible sport in that regard.
Here's one who thankfully seems to be still on the ladder, noticed the name cropping up many times last year then discovered a resume of his path to this years GB 3 championship. Great story, Mum & Dad in a Van Karting living on beans on toast eventually races Fiesta's. Had a sim for the circuits and Rokit ran a sim competition to find a talent where only the final mattered, nothing else.
Apolgies as it's not F1 - 25 but hopefully a few years hence.
Thanks for that! Hope he makes it!!

Likes Fast Cars

2,898 posts

175 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
PRO5T said:
It looks like Doohan is doomed to failure before the season even starts, the fanfare around Franco, only a day or so after Flav was telling anyone who’ll listen that doohan will be gone if he doesn’t perform doesn’t look good.
I’ve always found Briatore to be a distasteful and seedy person. Alpine scraping the bottom of the barrel and bringing back this bottom-feeding POS was yet another fk up by the disorganised French.
I hope Jack comes out with some big results early in the season.