Adrian Newey to Ferrari? Is it possible?

[Mark-C]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

I suspect he'll go to Indycar or Nascar rather than WEC. Would suit him better to stay his side of the pond.

I was going to ask if he was good enough for WEC, then I remembered Di Resta.

WEC in the Aston Martin send the most obvious destination to me ...

Aston need to be working on who pairs with Alonso in 2026 but also who will replace him quite soon after that.

Newey being onboard will definitely make it easier to hire quality drivers.

[shirt]

Sandpit Steve said:

Supersam83 said:

Kimi Raikkonen made a career out of it

Of course Kimi had way more talent so he could act that way.

Winning multiple world championships entitles you to be an arrogant little prick.

Being the only pay-driver left on the F1 grid, not so much.

Zhou and even Perez are pay drivers, just they get a ‘salary’ out of the take.

When he was at Williams I’d refer to him as ‘future world champion lance stroll’ and might start doing so again

Did prefer him when he was shy and quiet over moody and quiet tho.

Edited by shirt on Wednesday 11th September 17:07

[Smollet]

Mark-C said:

WEC in the Aston Martin send the most obvious destination to me ...

Aston need to be working on who pairs with Alonso in 2026 but also who will replace him quite soon after that.

Newey being onboard will definitely make it easier to hire quality drivers.

Assuming his dad sacks his son

[TheDeuce]

Smollet said:

Mark-C said:

WEC in the Aston Martin send the most obvious destination to me ...

Aston need to be working on who pairs with Alonso in 2026 but also who will replace him quite soon after that.

Newey being onboard will definitely make it easier to hire quality drivers.

Assuming his dad sacks his son

Or just transfers him to WEC.

[732NM]

marine boy said:

MustangGT said:

As a disinterested third party, I pay attention to 732NM for the facts, however, I also pay attention to Isaldiri because of the hilarious contents.

I'd 2nd 732NM has a lot more facts than most

A few posters often drown out those that know the facts by posting made up drivel with such confidence it could be misconstrued as fact

No names but I really enjoy reading their posts as they're so focused on trying to look knowledgeable they just end up confirming how little they know when someone like 732NM challenges them

Keep up your good work 732NM, you're doing a good job at keep this corner of PH's honest

Cheers, I try.

Always interesting to read some of your posts on the work you've done also.

Aside from the techie stuff i do know about after 40 years race engineering, my thoughts and opinions are just like everyone else's, speculation. Some posters seem to get triggered by this, probably because I've illustrated the nonsense they post is nonsense.

No one gets everything correct, but I'm not here on a windup, which can't be said about some posters, we all know who those posters are.

[TheDeuce]

732NM said:

marine boy said:

MustangGT said:

As a disinterested third party, I pay attention to 732NM for the facts, however, I also pay attention to Isaldiri because of the hilarious contents.

I'd 2nd 732NM has a lot more facts than most

A few posters often drown out those that know the facts by posting made up drivel with such confidence it could be misconstrued as fact

No names but I really enjoy reading their posts as they're so focused on trying to look knowledgeable they just end up confirming how little they know when someone like 732NM challenges them

Keep up your good work 732NM, you're doing a good job at keep this corner of PH's honest

Cheers, I try.

Always interesting to read some of your posts on the work you've done also.

Aside from the techie stuff i do know about after 40 years race engineering, my thoughts and opinions are just like everyone else's, speculation. Some posters seem to get triggered by this, probably because I've illustrated the nonsense they post is nonsense.

No one gets everything correct, but I'm not here on a windup, which can't be said about some posters, we all know who those posters are.

You're certainly not the first person with an engineer mindset I've met that can come across a little.. abrasive...

But what do people want? The reality or a nice story?

You and I both recently made errors in a thread. It happens. I agree totally about the will to be accurate and the disinterest in winding people up. I think knowledge generally wins, and a bit of common sense helps too.

[anonymous-user]

F1/Motorsport generally has three things; kids who want to race cars and don't care much about anything else, ambivalent towards or involuntarily ignorant of all the surrounding ste; team owners who want to make money and would abuse their own gran if a £50 note fell out of her arse as they did it and staff who work for peanuts because it's a vocation and/or they're gullible and believe the team owners care about them.

[Tazar]

Slightly off in another direction, how is having a Honda engine going to help sales of road cars? The current F1 cars have a Mercedes derived engine as do the road cars but will future road cars have Civic engines in the next generation of the Cygnet?

[Muzzer79]

Tazar said:

Slightly off in another direction, how is having a Honda engine going to help sales of road cars? The current F1 cars have a Mercedes derived engine as do the road cars but will future road cars have Civic engines in the next generation of the Cygnet?

The Honda connection is odd.

I can't see how one party doesn't end up missing out marketing-wise - either AM because their F1 car is powered by a Honda engine or Honda because the Aston Martin car gets all the credit and their engine doesn't get a mention (see Renault in 2010-2013)

I still think it points to Stroll (and therefore AM) bailing out of the team in the not-too-distant future.

[suffolk009]

Muzzer79 said:

The Honda connection is odd.

I can't see how one party doesn't end up missing out marketing-wise - either AM because their F1 car is powered by a Honda engine or Honda because the Aston Martin car gets all the credit and their engine doesn't get a mention (see Renault in 2010-2013)

I still think it points to Stroll (and therefore AM) bailing out of the team in the not-too-distant future.

I cannot see Stroll owning that team in five years time. Unless the Newey car is about the win the championship by about 3/4 way through it's first season in 2026 I think he'll put it all up for sale. Sooner or later a billionaire gets bored - sooner if they're losing money - and as Executive Chairman of Aston's road cars he's yet to turn that around.

[TikTak]

It is odd, but as it's been said. It is very rare to get that championship without a full works dedicated team. This gives them that.

Fighting against Merc and McLaren is just another obstacle with the likelyhood that the limitations of the PU and systems around it will lead those teams in similar directions and the opportunity to exploit something they haven't thought about far more difficult.

Plus the road cars will almost certainly maintain that Merc relationship.

[entropy]

suffolk009 said:

Muzzer79 said:

The Honda connection is odd.

I can't see how one party doesn't end up missing out marketing-wise - either AM because their F1 car is powered by a Honda engine or Honda because the Aston Martin car gets all the credit and their engine doesn't get a mention (see Renault in 2010-2013)

I still think it points to Stroll (and therefore AM) bailing out of the team in the not-too-distant future.

I cannot see Stroll owning that team in five years time. Unless the Newey car is about the win the championship by about 3/4 way through it's first season in 2026 I think he'll put it all up for sale. Sooner or later a billionaire gets bored - sooner if they're losing money - and as Executive Chairman of Aston's road cars he's yet to turn that around.

Possibly

Stroll is a car guy and has been involved in F1 since the early 90s via Tommy Hilfiger.

I think Stroll would want to be staying longer than 5 years to leave a legacy in F1. I think he wants to become the next Christian Horner, Ron Dennis, et al. and make AMF1 a dominant team.

[suffolk009]

entropy said:

suffolk009 said:

Muzzer79 said:

The Honda connection is odd.

I can't see how one party doesn't end up missing out marketing-wise - either AM because their F1 car is powered by a Honda engine or Honda because the Aston Martin car gets all the credit and their engine doesn't get a mention (see Renault in 2010-2013)

I still think it points to Stroll (and therefore AM) bailing out of the team in the not-too-distant future.

I cannot see Stroll owning that team in five years time. Unless the Newey car is about the win the championship by about 3/4 way through it's first season in 2026 I think he'll put it all up for sale. Sooner or later a billionaire gets bored - sooner if they're losing money - and as Executive Chairman of Aston's road cars he's yet to turn that around.

Possibly

Stroll is a car guy and has been involved in F1 since the early 90s via Tommy Hilfiger.

I think Stroll would want to be staying longer than 5 years to leave a legacy in F1. I think he wants to become the next Christian Horner, Ron Dennis, et al. and make AMF1 a dominant team.

I'm sure you're right about his aspirations. I'm just suggesting that if the F1 team's standing and the road cars fail to improve then I think he'll be off.

The history of F1 is littered with rich men's shattered dreams. Very few get to be Enzo, or Ron, or Frank, or Colin, or even Toto. Not even Horner has been that successful - he's still just an employee.

[skwdenyer]

entropy said:

suffolk009 said:

Muzzer79 said:

The Honda connection is odd.

I can't see how one party doesn't end up missing out marketing-wise - either AM because their F1 car is powered by a Honda engine or Honda because the Aston Martin car gets all the credit and their engine doesn't get a mention (see Renault in 2010-2013)

I still think it points to Stroll (and therefore AM) bailing out of the team in the not-too-distant future.

I cannot see Stroll owning that team in five years time. Unless the Newey car is about the win the championship by about 3/4 way through it's first season in 2026 I think he'll put it all up for sale. Sooner or later a billionaire gets bored - sooner if they're losing money - and as Executive Chairman of Aston's road cars he's yet to turn that around.

Possibly

Stroll is a car guy and has been involved in F1 since the early 90s via Tommy Hilfiger.

I think Stroll would want to be staying longer than 5 years to leave a legacy in F1. I think he wants to become the next Christian Horner, Ron Dennis, et al. and make AMF1 a dominant team.

AM don't use AM engines in their road cars. That's a problem for them in some quarters, not in others. McLaren use contract-designed engines (originally based off of an old design one for Nissan) for their road cars, not their own home-grown units. That's a problem for them in some quarters, not in others.

An interesting question would be whether LS fancies buying up the Viry-Châtillon operation, or indeed starting his own set-up, RBR-style.

The long-term goal for LS is probably to get AM to a "Ferrari-like" state and float it. How is the road car business doing right now? H1 2024 revenue was £600m, and FY guidance is about £1.5bn. Ferrari's FY 2024 guidance is €6.5bn (which includes the F1 team, and is about £5.5bn). Aston's F1 team revenues are probably around £200m. So FY guidance is pretty much that Ferrari is a bit over 3x the size (revenue-wise) as Aston.

That's a pretty impressive achievement, TBH, despite Aston's troubles. Since Stroll got on board with the road car business, revenues have grown 60% (despite volumes staying relatively flat), EBITDA has grown 200%. They've executed strongly on "specials" to drive revenues and margin, helping to free up cash to refresh their core range.

[shirt]

Good points there.

Do Aston manufacturer their v12 in house or is that contracted out?

[suffolk009]

skwdenyer said:

AM don't use AM engines in their road cars. That's a problem for them in some quarters, not in others. McLaren use contract-designed engines (originally based off of an old design one for Nissan) for their road cars, not their own home-grown units. That's a problem for them in some quarters, not in others.

An interesting question would be whether LS fancies buying up the Viry-Châtillon operation, or indeed starting his own set-up, RBR-style.

The long-term goal for LS is probably to get AM to a "Ferrari-like" state and float it. How is the road car business doing right now? H1 2024 revenue was £600m, and FY guidance is about £1.5bn. Ferrari's FY 2024 guidance is €6.5bn (which includes the F1 team, and is about £5.5bn). Aston's F1 team revenues are probably around £200m. So FY guidance is pretty much that Ferrari is a bit over 3x the size (revenue-wise) as Aston.

That's a pretty impressive achievement, TBH, despite Aston's troubles. Since Stroll got on board with the road car business, revenues have grown 60% (despite volumes staying relatively flat), EBITDA has grown 200%. They've executed strongly on "specials" to drive revenues and margin, helping to free up cash to refresh their core range.

If you want to buy Aston Martin Lagonda shares, be my guest. 5 years ago £40, 3 years ago £6, 1 year ago £3.5, today £1.5. All their numbers are currently falling; car sales, revenue, EBITDA, profits. Everything seems to be going downwards except for net deb which has risen from £766 million in 2022 to currently £1,196.

I'm not an analyst, and have merely picked most of these numbers from the pages of ssoreport.com.

[entropy]

suffolk009 said:

entropy said:

suffolk009 said:

Muzzer79 said:

The Honda connection is odd.

I can't see how one party doesn't end up missing out marketing-wise - either AM because their F1 car is powered by a Honda engine or Honda because the Aston Martin car gets all the credit and their engine doesn't get a mention (see Renault in 2010-2013)

I still think it points to Stroll (and therefore AM) bailing out of the team in the not-too-distant future.

I cannot see Stroll owning that team in five years time. Unless the Newey car is about the win the championship by about 3/4 way through it's first season in 2026 I think he'll put it all up for sale. Sooner or later a billionaire gets bored - sooner if they're losing money - and as Executive Chairman of Aston's road cars he's yet to turn that around.

Possibly

Stroll is a car guy and has been involved in F1 since the early 90s via Tommy Hilfiger.

I think Stroll would want to be staying longer than 5 years to leave a legacy in F1. I think he wants to become the next Christian Horner, Ron Dennis, et al. and make AMF1 a dominant team.

I'm sure you're right about his aspirations. I'm just suggesting that if the F1 team's standing and the road cars fail to improve then I think he'll be off.

The history of F1 is littered with rich men's shattered dreams. Very few get to be Enzo, or Ron, or Frank, or Colin, or even Toto. Not even Horner has been that successful - he's still just an employee.

AMF1 and AM road cars are two completely different entities separate from each other.

If Stroll sells the road car business then the F1 team won't be affected - which I think is more likely the relinquishing AMF1 and another reason Newey having equity which also won't be affected.

suffolk009 said:

The history of F1 is littered with rich men's shattered dreams. Very few get to be Enzo, or Ron, or Frank, or Colin, or even Toto. Not even Horner has been that successful - he's still just an employee.

It's kinda subjective. I'd put Horner as a great success, greater than Toto IMHO who inherited Brawn's legacy. The other thing is the ownership model has changed since Ron and Frank entered F1.

[anonymous-user]

entropy said:

It's kinda subjective. I'd put Horner as a great success, greater than Toto IMHO who inherited Brawn's legacy. The other thing is the ownership model has changed since Ron and Frank entered F1.

Perhaps the point being made was Horner hasn't financially benefited from his on-track achievements quite so much as you'd expect.

[TheDeuce]

suffolk009 said:

If you want to buy Aston Martin Lagonda shares, be my guest. 5 years ago £40, 3 years ago £6, 1 year ago £3.5, today £1.5. All their numbers are currently falling; car sales, revenue, EBITDA, profits. Everything seems to be going downwards except for net deb which has risen from £766 million in 2022 to currently £1,196.

I'm not an analyst, and have merely picked most of these numbers from the pages of ssoreport.com.

I would assume the plan for AM is longer than the few years since Stroll bought it.

I reckon they're coasting for now but will soon become an ultra luxury brand, beneath the 1000 cars per year threshold to avoid emissions fines and also likely to open themselves up to the ability to continue to sell ICE cars via the use of e-fuels.

I think the brand will survive but the price per car will skyrocket as they strive to limit unit sales in order to maintain exemptions.

I doubt very much that stroll, toto and Mercedes are invested in a dead duck.

[TheDeuce]

Forester1965 said:

entropy said:

It's kinda subjective. I'd put Horner as a great success, greater than Toto IMHO who inherited Brawn's legacy. The other thing is the ownership model has changed since Ron and Frank entered F1.

Perhaps the point being made was Horner hasn't financially benefited from his on-track achievements quite so much as you'd expect.

He definitely has not, which I assume is the reason for the split of opions in the team. He wants ownership. The others have no interest in his personal gain.

The Thai's love him but will they sell shares in the team? I can imagine those that don't wish for that to happen would seek to discredit him in some way. Maybe leak something to achieve as much...