Official 2024 Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[maz8062]

g4ry13 said:

deadslow said:

g4ry13 said:

OP did the business on the track and passed his teammate.

The team gifted Lando the undercut to come out in front of his teammate. If they had stopped in track order then Lando would have been behind OP and have to do the business on the track.

If Lando didn't try to make a point and wrestle with the team for all those laps he could have yielded position to OP and then raced him for position.

he definitely had the speed. In fact he more or less said after the race that he was daft not to do exactly that. Silly boy.

It was like watching a parent tell their child to behave themselves and reason with them whilst they were throwing a strop and stomping their feet. Lando eventually saw sense and listened to the parent.

The outcome may have been different playing ball and then using the rest of race to try gain position.

Yes, but with the benefit of hindsight he shouldn’t have gifted OP the win. It’s backfired on him twice - he’s lost a win and OP is not helping him. Lando doesn’t need OP - he’s faster. He just needs to make sure that he’s super aggressive next time around, if they crash and the team loses points so be it. He’ll still be a fast driver.

[MustangGT]

isaldiri said:

That's an absurd take on things in Hungary. Any 'gift' of a win would be Mclaren to Norris given they allowed him to undercut for the 2nd stops when Piastri as race leader clearly should have had priority. An equivalent position in Monza would have been if Mclaren had intentionally compromised Norris and allowed Piastri to get ahead such that it would then have been justified in asking Piastri to return the place to Norris. All this stuff about a 'noble gesture' by Norris that Piastri refused to return is quite frankly risible.

I do not agree. It is not absurd when you consider Lando is in the fight for WDC, Oscar is not. The team should be putting everything behind Lando in their efforts to win the WDC along with the WCC. These two races could easily cost them the WDC this year. It really should be that simple. They seem to have forgotten about the WDC.

[Piginapoke]

Sandpit Steve said:

These guys simply don’t think like the rest of us do. Piastri will be totally convinced he can be champion this year, until it’s no longer mathematically possible. It’s what he’s been working towards for a decade and a half.

I think Piastri is more focussed on making it clear to the team he’s the #1 driver. My guess is Lando will leave in the next year or two, probably to RBR.

[ajprice]

Piginapoke said:

I think Piastri is more focussed on making it clear to the team he’s the #1 driver. My guess is Lando will leave in the next year or two, probably to RBR.

If RB wasn't such a fustercluck of a place to be at the moment that would be a good idea, but the rats are leaving that ship now, not going to it. Unless Max leaves, he'd be hard no2 there anyway.

[tight fart]

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

[732NM]

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

His contract isn't public.

[Leithen]

732NM said:

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

His contract isn't public.

Having a contract that held him or the team to hostage by a driver is the last thing that Brown would sign.

My guess is that Webber will be advising Piastri to keep his elbows out and stand his ground.

Could well backfire however if other teams either don’t rate Piastri as that special or see him as being a pain in the arse and not a team player.

[maz8062]

Leithen said:

732NM said:

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

His contract isn't public.

Having a contract that held him or the team to hostage by a driver is the last thing that Brown would sign.

My guess is that Webber will be advising Piastri to keep his elbows out and stand his ground.

Could well backfire however if other teams either don’t rate Piastri as that special or see him as being a pain in the arse and not a team player.

The contract stipulation makes sense to me. At the time McLaren would have agreed to anything to “steal” OP from under the noses of Alpine and to be shot of Ricci. Plus Webber, having experienced team orders himself, would likely have insisted on it.

Would McLaren have anticipated such a situation where it would come into play when the contract was signed? Unlikely.

[Leithen]

maz8062 said:

Leithen said:

732NM said:

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

His contract isn't public.

Having a contract that held him or the team to hostage by a driver is the last thing that Brown would sign.

My guess is that Webber will be advising Piastri to keep his elbows out and stand his ground.

Could well backfire however if other teams either don’t rate Piastri as that special or see him as being a pain in the arse and not a team player.

The contract stipulation makes sense to me. At the time McLaren would have agreed to anything to “steal” OP from under the noses of Alpine and to be shot of Ricci. Plus Webber, having experienced team orders himself, would likely have insisted on it.

Would McLaren have anticipated such a situation where it would come into play when the contract was signed? Unlikely.

It is possible, but there will be multiple clauses that put the team first. Prost, Senna, Schumacher might have been able to stipulate that they were free to do what they like (I doubt it though), but Piastri won't have been. This is a young driver being advised to not give an inch until he is ordered to IMHO. He's probably had that order already this week.

[entropy]

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

Where did you get that information from?

Every driver has it in their contract that they should follow team orders should they occur.

Even Schumi reluctantly had to follow team orders and help Irvine & Ferrari win WDC in 1999.

[vaud]

entropy said:

...and help Irvine & Ferrari win WDC in 1999.

WCC.

[paulguitar]

entropy said:

Even Schumi reluctantly had to follow team orders and help Irvine & Ferrari win WDC in 1999.

Very, very reluctantly.

[Maxdecel]

entropy said:

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

Where did you get that information from?

Every driver has it in their contract that they should follow team orders should they occur.

Even Schumi reluctantly had to follow team orders and help Irvine & Ferrari win WDC in 1999.

May have a caveat involving a point where it's mathematically impossible to win the WDC, until then they race ?

[thiscocks]

MustangGT said:

TheDeuce said:

Well, neither of us know the extent to which Piastri was trying because he was most likely waiting for the expected switch to occur.

It doesn't matter anyway, nor does it matter who deserved to win in this context - for the record I think Lando could have won fair and square, if he had handed the place back, putting him back in his original position, and then continued to race fairly.

Why didn't he do that? Why did he need to act unfairly ahead of 'proving how fast he was'?

What exactly was Lando's justification for not immediately handing the place back?

All of which is actually irrelevant although correct in moral terms. Team orders are allowed in F1, regardless of our thoughts on this. The only driver in with a chance to beat Max is Lando. Therefore to maximise the chance of the WDC Oscar should be playing the rear gunner role in order to maximise the chances of the team winning both championships.

Oscar cost the team at Monza, no doubt about it. They could have run 1-2 and pulled away from Charles. The cost to the WDC was a reduction of 10 points against Max, the WCC also 10 points. Absolutely crazy.

It's not crazy at all. Mclaren (and WIlliams) have a history of letting their drivers get on with it and long may it continue. Some fans prefer watching a good race instead of obsessing over the WDC and beating Max.

[vaud]

thiscocks said:

It's not crazy at all. Mclaren (and WIlliams) have a history of letting their drivers get on with it and long may it continue. Some fans prefer watching a good race instead of obsessing over the WDC and beating Max.

100%

I'm loving watching each race. I haven't followed a single driver/team for some years and enjoy the sport a lot more while avoiding tribalism. The current crop of drivers is outstanding, possibly one of the strongest fields ever (from front to back)

[Gary C]

thiscocks said:

It's not crazy at all. Mclaren (and WIlliams) have a history of letting their drivers get on with it and long may it continue. Some fans prefer watching a good race instead of obsessing over the WDC and beating Max.

Mclaren would chew off Oscars right leg if they thought they were going to win the WDC with Lando but I think they didn't believe it was possible, however with the dramatic drop off in form of RB, I bet they are now regretting not implementing TO's two or three races ago.

All good for us though, but I expect thats the last we see this year.

8 races left, 62 points in it, if RB don't come back, its possible.

[maz8062]

vaud said:

thiscocks said:

It's not crazy at all. Mclaren (and WIlliams) have a history of letting their drivers get on with it and long may it continue. Some fans prefer watching a good race instead of obsessing over the WDC and beating Max.

100%

I'm loving watching each race. I haven't followed a single driver/team for some years and enjoy the sport a lot more while avoiding tribalism. The current crop of drivers is outstanding, possibly one of the strongest fields ever (from front to back)

I’m sorry but it shows a lack of intelligence to allow your drivers to squabble amongst themselves chasing down a WDC target, their first for 16 years, when faced with a competitor with a huge lead that has his whole team focused on him and is experiencing a sudden drop off in performance. No one individual/s is bigger than the team so they’ve all got to pull together for McLaren the team.

If OP was in Lando’s points position I’d be saying the same. Personalities are not important, the team is.

[KobayashiMaru86]

Realistically, Max still needs a DNF or a few 9th and 10ths to open this right up. We still don't know how Lando will develop. He may end up being nearer a Button type of champion but he was also my favourite at the time too. No doubt the same people criticising Lando for breathing wrong, would be criticising Jenson back in the day, and many were even in his championship winning year. As if once a Brit starts doing well, any faults people like to jump on. My only critiques I have are the starts, but both don't seem brilliant and be more of a barsteward. Stop being nice. We see far more of drivers now than we used to, warts and all which is good in some ways but it leaves them exposed a bit and I wouldn't want to show too much. It's a double edge sword.

[SmoothCriminal]

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

If Brown signed that then he is the most incompetent team manager on the grid.

Piastri is a rookie it was his first drive in f1, to get that clause which even experienced drivers would struggle to get would be astonishing.

[Red9zero]

SmoothCriminal said:

tight fart said:

Piastri.
Apparently his contract has a clause not to be asked to be no2 driver at any point.

If Brown signed that then he is the most incompetent team manager on the grid.

Piastri is a rookie it was his first drive in f1, to get that clause which even experienced drivers would struggle to get would be astonishing.

Understandable though, with Webber as his manager.