F1's seriously evaluating return to V10 engines

[geeks]

paulguitar said:

geeks said:

paulguitar said:

They were also pathetically unimpressive. I actually saw F1 cars being laughed at when I went to the GP in Catalunya that year. I never expected to witness an F1 car being laughed at.


They've improved a bit since then, but the current cars are still seriously underwhelming live. It's interesting to see how everyone reacts at a modern F1 race when an old NA car is sent out. It gets the whole crowd buzzing. We need to get back to that.

Were they, were they really?

Yes, yes they were.

geeks said:

So, will a V10 engine in a 2025 car improve the racing?

That's rather a foolish question. A V10 engine will not just be bunged into a 2025 car, as I am sure you know.

No, its not, people want a V10 (apparently) I want to know how it will improve the racing, a question I am yet to have answered.

[paulguitar]

geeks said:

No, its not, people want a V10 (apparently) I want to know how it will improve the racing, a question I am yet to have answered.

They are separate issues. The non-hybrid naturally aspirated engine will make F1 viscerally mindblowing again. The other stuff eg DRS, wake turbulence, etc, is separate and applies whether the cars have NA or hybrid turbo engines.

[thegreenhell]

geeks said:

No, its not, people want a V10 (apparently) I want to know how it will improve the racing, a question I am yet to have answered.

An engine, any engine, in and of itself won't improve the 'racing'. How have the multi-billion dollar hybrid turbos improved the racing? The answer is they haven't. It's just a means of propulsion in an otherwise aero-dominated formula.

What a V10 would do is improve the overall spectacle, in particular for the fans at the trackside. It would bring back a noise that you can feel through your whole body, rather than just a drone and a whoosh as a hybrid passes.

And it would be at least one order of magnitude cheaper to produce for everyone involved.

[HardtopManual]

thegreenhell said:

What a V10 would do is improve the overall spectacle, in particular for the fans at the trackside. It would bring back a noise that you can feel through your whole body, rather than just a drone and a whoosh as a hybrid passes.

This. I used to go to 3 or 4 races a season until the hybrids came along. I don't think I've been to 3 or 4 races during the entire hybrid era. A lot of that is due to the lack of a reason to be there now that the experience isn't as visceral.

[Tommo15_6AY]

I remember being at a few GP's on 2018 in hospitality close to the track, the hybrids sounded epic close up, like a tie fighter in Starwars type mix of physical and electric noise. Everyone i was with were buzzing hearing them close up and feeling the 'energy' as they went past. We also were able to have a nice day talking to each other without earplugs or our ears bleeding.

V10's coming back is pie in the sky, the current manufacturers will spit their dummy out after sinking so much cash into current hybrids and it doesn't align with any new/existing manufacturers either.

MBS is a mentalist

[Muzzer79]

Tommo15_6AY said:

I remember being at a few GP's on 2018 in hospitality close to the track, the hybrids sounded epic close up, like a tie fighter in Starwars type mix of physical and electric noise. Everyone i was with were buzzing hearing them close up and feeling the 'energy' as they went past. We also were able to have a nice day talking to each other without earplugs or our ears bleeding.

Whereas I remember driving into Silverstone on GP day in 1995 and hearing the V12 in Jean Alesi's Ferrari 412T2 screaming down Hangar Straight in the warm up. I was at least half a mile away.

I know which 'energy' I prefer.

[paulguitar]

Muzzer79 said:

Tommo15_6AY said:

I remember being at a few GP's on 2018 in hospitality close to the track, the hybrids sounded epic close up, like a tie fighter in Starwars type mix of physical and electric noise. Everyone i was with were buzzing hearing them close up and feeling the 'energy' as they went past. We also were able to have a nice day talking to each other without earplugs or our ears bleeding.

Whereas I remember driving into Silverstone on GP day in 1995 and hearing the V12 in Jean Alesi's Ferrari 412T2 screaming down Hangar Straight in the warm up. I was at least half a mile away.

I know which 'energy' I prefer.

That same weekend I was at Silverstone with my brother. He heard that same sound, with the same driver, as we were approaching the entrance gates. He'd never been much of an F1 fan before, and I'd had to drag him to the circuit, but when he heard that sound he invontarily broke into a jog because something inside his soul was stirred to the point that he had to see for himself what the hell was making that magical and scary noise. That day and the sound of the Ferrari in particular turned him into an F1 fan, and he remains so to this day.


What we have now is a pale shadow of that. I've mentioned this before, but I sat at Stowe a while ago for an F1 practice session and the bloke next to me was watching the cricket on his phone.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 24th February 14:33

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 24th February 14:33

[Arrivalist]

Monaco 2003 was the one for me. In the stands listening to the glorious V10s which made any conversation, even with the person next to you, impossible.

Fabulous sound that you felt throughout your entire body.

[rev-erend]

Nova Gyna said:

It’s a textbook PR move, imo. Throw out something fans would love, knowing full well it’ll never happen, just to steer the conversation away from the FIA’s endless stream of incompetence.

Give it a few weeks, and this "idea" will be quietly forgotten - just like every other hollow promise made by the idiot in charge.

My thoughts exactly when I heard the news..

[paulguitar]

Arrivalist said:

Monaco 2003 was the one for me. In the stands listening to the glorious V10s which made any conversation, even with the person next to you, impossible.

Fabulous sound that you felt throughout your entire body.

They must have sounded ridiculously loud at Monaco!

[Tommo15_6AY]

Muzzer79 said:

Tommo15_6AY said:

I remember being at a few GP's on 2018 in hospitality close to the track, the hybrids sounded epic close up, like a tie fighter in Starwars type mix of physical and electric noise. Everyone i was with were buzzing hearing them close up and feeling the 'energy' as they went past. We also were able to have a nice day talking to each other without earplugs or our ears bleeding.

Whereas I remember driving into Silverstone on GP day in 1995 and hearing the V12 in Jean Alesi's Ferrari 412T2 screaming down Hangar Straight in the warm up. I was at least half a mile away.

I know which 'energy' I prefer.

They're both different, just because some people prefer it doesn't make them right, and those who like the hybrids wrong and vice versa.

I do very much like the low torque of the hybrids, the cars are a lot more mobile at the rear on corner exit, again different.



You know when discussing an opinion if you have to force it on everyone that yours is 'right' when its subjective.....

[Arrivalist]

paulguitar said:

Arrivalist said:

Monaco 2003 was the one for me. In the stands listening to the glorious V10s which made any conversation, even with the person next to you, impossible.

Fabulous sound that you felt throughout your entire body.

They must have sounded ridiculously loud at Monaco!

They certainly did. I went to Silverstone that year too and the noise at Monaco, with all the buildings around, certainly felt a lot louder.

I got a phone call during the race and no matter how loud the volume of the phone, or how much I held it to my ear whilst sticking my finger in the other, I could not hear anything from the other end.

[braddo]

I think it will be impossible (in terms of marketing and politics) to go from the most efficient ICE drivetrains ever made and back to larger NA engines whose emissions of both exhaust and noise will be way beyond the current cars.

Running on sustainable fuel doesn't mean that F1 could forget about being efficient. It wouldn't be a good message. F1 cars have raced with 100kg of fuel for over a decade now. I wonder how much extra a V10 would use. Re-fuelling would have to be reintroduced?

Going from a 1.5L V6 to a 2.0L V8 would be cool, perhaps with more simplification of the hybrid PU in a bid to keep costs and power levels down.

[Muzzer79]

Tommo15_6AY said:

Muzzer79 said:

Tommo15_6AY said:

I remember being at a few GP's on 2018 in hospitality close to the track, the hybrids sounded epic close up, like a tie fighter in Starwars type mix of physical and electric noise. Everyone i was with were buzzing hearing them close up and feeling the 'energy' as they went past. We also were able to have a nice day talking to each other without earplugs or our ears bleeding.

Whereas I remember driving into Silverstone on GP day in 1995 and hearing the V12 in Jean Alesi's Ferrari 412T2 screaming down Hangar Straight in the warm up. I was at least half a mile away.

I know which 'energy' I prefer.

They're both different, just because some people prefer it doesn't make them right, and those who like the hybrids wrong and vice versa.

I do very much like the low torque of the hybrids, the cars are a lot more mobile at the rear on corner exit, again different.



You know when discussing an opinion if you have to force it on everyone that yours is 'right' when its subjective.....

Who is forcing opinions? I merely stated that I preferred the V12.

If you don't, I really DGAF.....

[thegreenhell]

braddo said:

I think it will be impossible (in terms of marketing and politics) to go from the most efficient ICE drivetrains ever made and back to larger NA engines whose emissions of both exhaust and noise will be way beyond the current cars.

Running on sustainable fuel doesn't mean that F1 could forget about being efficient. It wouldn't be a good message. F1 cars have raced with 100kg of fuel for over a decade now. I wonder how much extra a V10 would use. Re-fuelling would have to be reintroduced?

Going from a 1.5L V6 to a 2.0L V8 would be cool, perhaps with more simplification of the hybrid PU in a bid to keep costs and power levels down.

Why would it have to be less efficient? They are about to ditch MGU-H anyway, and just rely on heavy regen for the MGU-K. If that system works next year then it can also be applied to an NA engine in the same way. There's no reason why it couldn't be a hybrid NA V10.

[kambites]

braddo said:

Going from a 1.5L V6 to a 2.0L V8 would be cool, perhaps with more simplification of the hybrid PU in a bid to keep costs and power levels down.

The old V8s sounded horrible, IMO. V10 or V12 please.

[Bo_apex]

thegreenhell said:

Why would it have to be less efficient? They are about to ditch MGU-H anyway, and just rely on heavy regen for the MGU-K. If that system works next year then it can also be applied to an NA engine in the same way. There's no reason why it couldn't be a hybrid NA V10.

Agree.

For F1 to survive it needs to position itself as far away as possible from FE.

F1 needs to be Hip Hop compared to the FE Easy Listening

[Starfighter]

I would like smaller cars. The contrast between the older and newer McLaren at the F1 exhibition was massive. No wonder there is no overtaking at Monaco.

[Siao]

kambites said:

braddo said:

Going from a 1.5L V6 to a 2.0L V8 would be cool, perhaps with more simplification of the hybrid PU in a bid to keep costs and power levels down.

The old V8s sounded horrible, IMO. V10 or V12 please.

Last time I attended a GP, the Aston Martin V8 Safety Car, was by far the best sounding car on the field. I remember people cheering when they were stepping on it on the straights. Even if it doesn't sound like the V10, it sounded way better than the current engines.

[HardtopManual]

braddo said:

I think it will be impossible (in terms of marketing and politics) to go from the most efficient ICE drivetrains ever made and back to larger NA engines whose emissions of both exhaust and noise will be way beyond the current cars.

Depends what you're marketing, doesn't it? Pretty much all F1 marketing content produced today still has the sound of an early-00s V10 dubbed over the top of it.