Max's new team?
Discussion
bergclimber34 said:
I simply re-iterate after listening to a lot of drivers on pods not necessarily from F1, that salary is a far more important aspect than people think, you seem to think they would drive for free, I dont believe that for one second. Maybe the elite few, but they have earned stack anyway so it is a different meaning to them.
Any sport is the same
There is a world of difference between a driver pushing for the best salary they can get, and it being a motivator in their decision making. No driver is going to sacrifice car performance for money.Any sport is the same
That aside, the part I've bolded is completely at odds with your assertion in two separate posts that it's behind Max and Lewis's decision making - two of the very best drivers of their era, who are both already wealthy enough to essentially do as they please.
The point being with teh above post is that Senna had already earned huge sums so was prepared to give that up to drive for free. He would already earn from personal sponsors so it was a s mistruth
The idea that money is not the biggest motivator to an existing world champion is largely folly because no matter who they are, invariably the fact that you are a WC commands a huge salary anyway.
The best example of this not being the case is Kimi at Lotus who did not earn a big salary but managed to negotiate a huge win and points bonus, would he have been as quick in that car were this not the case? I am fairly sure he would not.
Win bonuses, etc all pay a big part in any sport and F1 is no different.
The idea that money is not the biggest motivator to an existing world champion is largely folly because no matter who they are, invariably the fact that you are a WC commands a huge salary anyway.
The best example of this not being the case is Kimi at Lotus who did not earn a big salary but managed to negotiate a huge win and points bonus, would he have been as quick in that car were this not the case? I am fairly sure he would not.
Win bonuses, etc all pay a big part in any sport and F1 is no different.
Byker28i said:
Max will go to wherever he thinks will offer him the best car, and who will offer him the unwavering support that Horner does currently
Every single driver on the grid wants that same dynamic.Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 11th March 11:28
The deciding margins between who achieves their desires and who doesn't are always wafer thin.
The true greats manage to create their own destiny, and its great to observe.
I'll upset some people on here by saying that I don't think Max is a "choose your seat" driver.
He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
HardtopManual said:
I'll upset some people on here by saying that I don't think Max is a "choose your seat" driver.
He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
I fully agree with this, Max has yet to prove himself in two ways:He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
HardtopManual said:
I'll upset some people on here by saying that I don't think Max is a "choose your seat" driver.
I'm not upset by it - I don't particularly like himHowever, he is a choose-your-seat driver.
He's a 4-time world champion who is regarded (subjectively) by many in the paddock as the best on the grid
Were he to indicate his availability, he could walk into any seat on the grid.
As for this
HardtopManual said:
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
He talks about early retirement in the context of achieving everything he set out to achieve and stepping off a train that sees you on an aircraft for 9 months of the year. Not because he thinks he won't get a seat outside of Red Bull....
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 14th March 15:15
MustangGT said:
HardtopManual said:
I'll upset some people on here by saying that I don't think Max is a "choose your seat" driver.
He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
I fully agree with this, Max has yet to prove himself in two ways:He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
MustangGT said:
I fully agree with this, Max has yet to prove himself in two ways:
1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
1) They can't find one!1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
2) The races before 2021 and last season not good examples?
He might race like an 18 year old at a max power meet but I think he's deserved the right to be considered the fastest out there.
deadslow said:
MustangGT said:
HardtopManual said:
I'll upset some people on here by saying that I don't think Max is a "choose your seat" driver.
He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
I fully agree with this, Max has yet to prove himself in two ways:He has not yet proven that he can operate in a team where he does not have number 1 status. There aren't many teams that structure their driver line up in that way.
Despite the multiple WDCs, he has not yet proven himself against a quality teammate, and in situations where he came up against a quality opponent in another car, regularly loses both his temper and his driving ability.
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
Some of us just like F1 and have opinions. You want my opinion on Lewis? His greatest achievements (and they are the greatest achievements of anyone in the sport, ever) are behind him.
Max still has a lot to prove it he wants to reach Hamilton/Senna/Prost/Fangio levels of greatness.
Muzzer79 said:
HardtopManual said:
I'll upset some people on here by saying that I don't think Max is a "choose your seat" driver.
I'm not upset by it - I don't particularly like himHowever, he is a choose-your-seat driver.
He's a 4-time world champion who is regarded (subjectively) by many in the paddock as the best on the grid
Were he to indicate his availability, he could walk into any seat on the grid.
As for this
HardtopManual said:
Max isn't stupid and will be aware of that, which is why talks about early retirement from F1.
He talks about early retirement in the context of achieving everything he set out to achieve and stepping off a train that sees you on an aircraft for 9 months of the year. Not because he thinks he won't get a seat outside of Red Bull....
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 14th March 15:15
Ed Banger said:
MustangGT said:
I fully agree with this, Max has yet to prove himself in two ways:
1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
1) They can't find one!1) Against an equal team-mate.
2) In a car that is not vastly superior to the others.
2) The races before 2021 and last season not good examples?
He might race like an 18 year old at a max power meet but I think he's deserved the right to be considered the fastest out there.
2) Not at all, pre 2021 what did he really achieve? No WDC for sure. last year, the RB was vastly superior for half the year, then comparable.
In your final statement you are simplifying too much. You need to be a lot more than just fast to be a great driver. Max is very fast, no doubt about that. He has yet to demonstrate the other qualities needed, such as race craft, strategic planning etc.
HardtopManual said:
If he phoned up Vasseur and said "I want to drive a Ferrari next year", do you think he'd be wearing red? I doubt he could even walk into McLaren or Merc.
Bit different with Ferrari and McLaren as they have both drivers under contract and both have a very strong lineup. Would Ferrari have booted Sainz for Max (had Max been available instead of Lewis)? I think so.Would Toto take Max ahead of Russell, if Max wants to go there next season? Again, I think he probably would. If the Antonelli gamble doesn't come off he might even consider running George and Max.
spikyone said:
HardtopManual said:
If he phoned up Vasseur and said "I want to drive a Ferrari next year", do you think he'd be wearing red? I doubt he could even walk into McLaren or Merc.
Bit different with Ferrari and McLaren as they have both drivers under contract and both have a very strong lineup. Would Ferrari have booted Sainz for Max (had Max been available instead of Lewis)? I think so.Would Toto take Max ahead of Russell, if Max wants to go there next season? Again, I think he probably would. If the Antonelli gamble doesn't come off he might even consider running George and Max.
I wouldn't rule out Mercedes, I saw Toto saying he had promised Lewis he wouldn't negotiate with max while Lewis was in the team. Now he's not surely he'll start negotiations.
Saying that I can see max throwing his toys out of the pram if the red bull are slow this year and leaving F1.
Dunc.
Saying that I can see max throwing his toys out of the pram if the red bull are slow this year and leaving F1.
Dunc.
dunc_sx said:
I wouldn't rule out Mercedes, I saw Toto saying he had promised Lewis he wouldn't negotiate with max while Lewis was in the team. Now he's not surely he'll start negotiations.
Saying that I can see max throwing his toys out of the pram if the red bull are slow this year and leaving F1.
Dunc.
Toto was and is still probably 50/50 over Max. He's a good driver but he's a difficult choice for a team with the Merc/Toto ethos and I doubt very much Toto wants to share the garage with Verstappen Snr... Saying that I can see max throwing his toys out of the pram if the red bull are slow this year and leaving F1.
Dunc.
But from Max's pov, he doesn't need to stay at RBR or choose a new team for next season, he could very easily take a year out to find out who's got the best PU/car and then go drive for them.
I think it's more likely he'll take a year out or go to AMR than it is he will race for RBR in 2026. If this years car does let him down, I would only be more convinced of that.
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