Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

[nickfrog]

sparta6 said:

Working for JP ?
Now there's a proper tight arse

He certainly wasn't with me.

[Gary C]

MarkwG said:

I seem to recall Schumacher wouldn't even play for the team in the last race, emphasising his number 1 status by chasing Hakkinen rather than supporting Irvine. He had no chance of the championship, but took points off Irvine by ensuring he finished ahead. Cracking race for a Mclaren fan

I felt at the time, that Schumacher really didn't want Irvine to win the championship and let Hakkinen away at the start and never mounted a challenge.

I quite liked Irvine, last F1 driver to enjoy life and racing at the same time (could you imagine a team with Hunt and Irvine in it together )

But, yep a No2 driver.

[sparta6]

Gary C said:

I felt at the time, that Schumacher really didn't want Irvine to win the championship and let Hakkinen away at the start and never mounted a challenge.

I quite liked Irvine, last F1 driver to enjoy life and racing at the same time (could you imagine a team with Hunt and Irvine in it together )

But, yep a No2 driver.

+1

Eddie good fun yet tenacious. How many other drivers would unlap themselves on Senna ?

Eddie got 4 wins in '99, Mika got 5.

Yep, Coulthard also a No2 driver.

[vdn]

Muzzer79 said:

1994 Schumacher 92pts Verstappen 10pts
1995 Schumacher 102pts Herbert 45pts
2000 Schumacher 108pts Barrichello 62pts
2001 Schumacher 123pts Barrichello 56pts
2002 Schumacher 144pts Barrichello 77pts (Ferrari won every race apart from 2 in 2002)
2003 Schumacher 93pts Barrichello 65pts
2004 Schumacher 148pts Barrichello 114pts (Ferrari won every race apart from 3 in 2004)

I await your bullst excuse as to why any of the drivers in the right-hand column were justifiably in their seat but Bottas isn't.

Sparta really is as dumb as they come, I'm afraid. You're peeing into the wind.

[angrymoby]

sparta6 said:

Eddie good fun yet tenacious. How many other drivers would unlap themselves on Senna ?

Ocon ...although iirc you didn't find Ocon doing it quite as amusing

[Stan the Bat]

angrymoby said:

sparta6 said:

Eddie good fun yet tenacious. How many other drivers would unlap themselves on Senna ?

Ocon ...although iirc you didn't find Ocon doing it quite as amusing

That's a gotcha !!

[sparta6]

vdn said:

Sparta really is as dumb as they come, I'm afraid. You're peeing into the wind.

Ahhh vdn, the bloke that thinks all fashion models are dumb too, even the black ones

[sparta6]

angrymoby said:

sparta6 said:

Eddie good fun yet tenacious. How many other drivers would unlap themselves on Senna ?

Ocon ...although iirc you didn't find Ocon doing it quite as amusing

I must've missed Ocon unlapping Ayrton Senna.

Kindly post the link

[M5-911]

sparta6 said:

Good to see plenty of bias remains in the Hamilton jerk-circle

"Having drawn level on points with him at the time of Schumacher's accident at Silverstone, the 1999 title fight was poised to feature an Irvine intervention."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-day-irvine-s...



Now the Red Bull is a contender, let's see how close Bottas gets to Max in the WDC. Maybe 3 points ?

no bias here, just facts. Without Hamilton Bottas would already have been WC. Without Shumacher, Irvine did not.

[sparta6]

M5-911 said:

no bias here, just facts. Without Hamilton Bottas would already have been WC. Without Shumacher, Irvine did not.

The fact is Irvine fought Mika in fairly equal cars. Let's see if Bottas can do the same to Max now that Red Bull and Mercedes are fairly close.

[Muzzer79]

M5-911 said:

sparta6 said:

Good to see plenty of bias remains in the Hamilton jerk-circle

"Having drawn level on points with him at the time of Schumacher's accident at Silverstone, the 1999 title fight was poised to feature an Irvine intervention."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-day-irvine-s...



Now the Red Bull is a contender, let's see how close Bottas gets to Max in the WDC. Maybe 3 points ?

no bias here, just facts. Without Hamilton Bottas would already have been WC. Without Shumacher, Irvine did not.

Whilst we're in facts-mode - Simply removing Hamilton makes Bottas a double world champion.

In fact, out of his 7 titles, Hamilton's team-mates have been runner-up in 4 of them.

If you remove Schumacher, Barrichello was WDC in 2002 and 2004. All his other title years; his team-mates were 3rd or worse.

Maybe, just maybe, the Mercedes has been an 'excellent' car rather than an 'unbeatable' car these last few years and, rather than Bottas being poor, Hamilton has out-performed it?

Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 9th April 10:40

[M5-911]

Muzzer79 said:

sparta6 said:

When will Bottas get within 2 points of WDC ?

1994 Schumacher 92pts Verstappen 10pts
1995 Schumacher 102pts Herbert 45pts
2000 Schumacher 108pts Barrichello 62pts
2001 Schumacher 123pts Barrichello 56pts
2002 Schumacher 144pts Barrichello 77pts (Ferrari won every race apart from 2 in 2002)
2003 Schumacher 93pts Barrichello 65pts
2004 Schumacher 148pts Barrichello 114pts (Ferrari won every race apart from 3 in 2004)

I await your bullst excuse as to why any of the drivers in the right-hand column were justifiably in their seat but Bottas isn't.

Better change subject when you are presented with hard facts.

I always find it strange that old f1 fans accept that the old guard were aloud to have a number 2 contractual driver or a very "poor" second driver then Hamilton comes along and the guy has to have multiple World champions next to him every year to prove them something.

I can imagine nothing will be mentioned about Verstapen when he wins his first title (hopefully this year) despite Redbull having done everything to keep good drivers at bay or not letting drivers the time to adapt to the car entirely designed around Verstapen driving style.

Very odd.

[Muzzer79]

sparta6 said:

M5-911 said:

no bias here, just facts. Without Hamilton Bottas would already have been WC. Without Shumacher, Irvine did not.

The fact is Irvine fought Mika in fairly equal cars. Let's see if Bottas can do the same to Max now that Red Bull and Mercedes are fairly close.

Do you mean Mika Salo?

As I recall one of the prime reasons for Irvine getting so close to Hakkinen at the end of the year was because Salo (two races into his Ferrari career) had to give up a win in the Ferrari in Germany to let Eddie through.
Eddie then couldn't win again until Malaysia, when a returning Schumacher somewhat begrudgingly did the same and allowed Eddie to pick up maximum points.....

Post-Schumacher's accident, the only win that Irvine picked up unaided was Austria....

[angrymoby]

sparta6 said:

I must've missed Ocon unlapping Ayrton Senna.

Kindly post the link

you asked 'would' not 'did'

seems you've also proven Senna's point when he said that Irvine's move was an unnecessary risk, not that he punched Irvine for the actual move ...he punched Irvine for his subsequent piss poor attitude about it

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

angrymoby said:

sparta6 said:

Eddie good fun yet tenacious. How many other drivers would unlap themselves on Senna ?

Ocon ...although iirc you didn't find Ocon doing it quite as amusing

I must've missed Ocon unlapping Ayrton Senna.

Kindly post the link

You know, playing the fool as alway you little agitator you
Ocon unlapping Verstappen. Max was too stubborn to let it go and get on with his own race. Your secret man crush, Lewis, pointed out to Max in the room of awkwardness that he was racing Ocon and would have more points.

[sparta6]

angrymoby said:

sparta6 said:

I must've missed Ocon unlapping Ayrton Senna.

Kindly post the link

you asked 'would' not 'did'

seems you've also proven Senna's point when he said that Irvine's move was an unnecessary risk, not that he punched Irvine for the actual move ...he punched Irvine for his subsequent piss poor attitude about it

I don't see any correlation between unlapping a spotty MV, and unlapping Ayrton Senna the GOAT.

Punches in the paddock should not be condoned.
But Eddie probably deserved one

[anonymous-user]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.long-se...

[anonymous-user]

Gary C said:

MarkwG said:

I seem to recall Schumacher wouldn't even play for the team in the last race, emphasising his number 1 status by chasing Hakkinen rather than supporting Irvine. He had no chance of the championship, but took points off Irvine by ensuring he finished ahead. Cracking race for a Mclaren fan

I felt at the time, that Schumacher really didn't want Irvine to win the championship and let Hakkinen away at the start and never mounted a challenge.

I quite liked Irvine, last F1 driver to enjoy life and racing at the same time (could you imagine a team with Hunt and Irvine in it together )

But, yep a No2 driver.

What more could Schumacher do? He came back from his broken leg and destroyed everyone in qualifying and then followed a 1-2 for Ferrari in the Malaysian Grand Prix.

Schumacher got pole in the final race 1.5 seconds faster than Irvine who started 5th. I am sure if there was any way of Schumacher helping Irvine anymore he would have but alas Irvine just wasn't good enough in that final race weekend.

[Mr_Thyroid]

sparta6 said:

The fact is Irvine fought Mika in fairly equal cars.

Not really. I wouldn't call it an equal fight.

Hakinnen had 5 retirements, all from the lead (ok, two were his own mistake). Irvine had one.

Irvine had wins handed to him by his team mate twice. Meanwhile Hakinnen was spun out of the lead by his team mate in Austria.

Irvine finished ahead of Hakinnen three times all season. Once at Monaco where Hakinnen went down the escape road at Mirabeau on oil from Takagi's blown engine, once at Austria because of Coulthard and once in Malaysia with some help from Michael.

Irvine was otherwise always more than one place behind Hakinnen - the only time they finished in consecutive positions was Monaco.

[vdn]

Irvine was a proper number 2 driver. Sparta just spins things into a warped reality. The same one he seems to live in!