Re. DELTA E-4 ELECTRIC COUPE REVEALED
Discussion
renrut said:
Chris71 said:
The problem is electricity - or rather battery-storage - is a fundamentally compromised way of producing a car. You need a very low CD and clever weight reduction techniques to make them competitive.
Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
That's the root of the very big problem with it - I don't see 10,000% efficiency gains being made. If you could store energy in a nice dense form it would be a no brainer. Maybe that's unfair as you don't *need* 800 miles per tank as my Jag proves but you do need 200+ for it to be usable in modern life. And batteries at the very best cutting edge are around a 10th the capacity of liquid chemical fuels*. That's about 250% improvement to make from potential energy into the car to motive energy out compared to current IC technology. I'm not sure that is possible at present.Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
- I am aware of chemical/air batteries but I haven't seen any examples of that put their claims to the test. And they do sound very similar to IC engines don't they...
Electric motors are around 3 times more efficient at converting energy from the battery to motion and about 1/5 the weight of a petrol engine of equivalent power. Remove the gearbox, clutch, 80% of the cooling capacity and a lot of the structure required to support the running gear the electric package would be lighter, smaller and much lower in the vehicle.
In the short term expect reasonably large improvements in battery performance. Not because the underlying technology improves but due to a very rapid learning curve in terms of putting batteries into automotive traction.
The packing methods used to build the first generation of automotive batteries will be inefficient, the connections between cells will be conservative sized. The cells themselves will be conservative in their operating parameters to guaranteed a long battery life.
If you look at the energy density of the Tesla Roadster and Model S's batteries in comparison with those of the Leaf and Volt you would see a fairly massive improvement in range/performance just be putting Tesla's current batteries in those cars.
thinfourth2 said:
Also current fast charger tech can put a battery up to 80% charged in the crucial having a cup of tea and gong for a wizz timeframe.
All it really needs is for service stations to have a fast chargers or two and it will mean you can run electric as your only car if you have a driveway.
Really? Got a link for that , it sounds interesting.All it really needs is for service stations to have a fast chargers or two and it will mean you can run electric as your only car if you have a driveway.
BHPower said:
http://www.delta-motorsport.com/project08.htm
just like to point something out, these are the guys who designed and build the Hennessey Venom GT, for Hennessey. Big fish indeed.
More vapourware.just like to point something out, these are the guys who designed and build the Hennessey Venom GT, for Hennessey. Big fish indeed.
SR06 said:
Why dont they just carve slots in the road like Scalextric and plumb in the National Grid? It would eliminate understeer and mean unlimited mileage...plus I used to alway get the back end of my mk1 escort and Martini 911 hanging out with some chalk on the 90 left!
make this man minister for transport immediately that's a fantastic idea 
I must say i'm pretty disappointed by the tone of this article from PH. I understand that this is PISTONheads, but this is a ground up EV designed to be a sports car. The first of its kind, no less (the Tesla isn't ground-up).
If this car is really fun to drive, with a 200 mile real-world range, then it deserves all car enthusiast's respect. I was invited to be at the launch on monday, but i'm living in Delhi now so couldn't go. I'm gutted though as i was really interested in the vehicle.
Here's Steve Cropley's blog for anyone who's interested:
The epitome of a British future car...
Steve Cropley
Today at Silverstone, I had a fascinating glimpse of the British motor industry’s future, in the form of a deeply impressive all-carbon, all-electric coupe called Delta E4. It was both moving and exciting.
The E4 has just been revealed by one of the UK’s new-wave of quick-thinking, quick-acting automotive consultancies, Delta Motorsport, who invited a bunch of hacks in for a first drive.
Delta’s two British principals, Nick Carpenter and Simon Dowson, spent three years dreaming up a “pet” low-carbon project, while working on other economy cars and motorsport projects. Then, starting in 2009, they took ‘way less than two years — and a paltry £750,000 of public money — to produce a run of five remarkably good-looking, capable and well finished little battery-powered E4 two-plus-twos. First of all they look great, because the styling was put in the hands of a design professional, but there’s much more to them than that.
The car, financed by grants from the East Midlands Development Agency and the Technology Strategy Board, is rear-driven by a pair of Oxford YASA electric motors (made by another new young and thriving British company, based close to the Dreaming Spires as the name suggests). It is capable of a 0-60 mph sprint in 6.5 seconds. Top speed is 116 mph, the range is 140 miles and the kerb weight is an amazingly low 975 kg despite the fact that the 32kW/h battery pack weighs around 350kg.
The secrets of the low weight are a small road footprint, an all-carbon fibre chassis (made in a form that would allow production of more than 10,000 cars a year, at £60,000 to £70,000 a copy) and you can throw in sophisticated electronics and aerodynamics, that further improve the efficiency.
I say “would allow” because Delta has done as much as it can with our £750k. It has practically run out. They will use what remains to run the cars for a year, gathering user info and refining them as they go. They will also use the time to look for more backing, perhaps for a well-financed partner to take the project to production.
What makes this car special for me is seeing just how much has been achieved with so little money, and experiencing the car from behind the wheel. It is pretty, roomy, well-made, easy to drive, sporty, nippy (a 4x4 version with double the poke would be nippier) and about as far from the many lash-up prototypes I’ve seen in my life as it is possible to get.
This, to me, is the epitome of a British future car, packed with high technology and good-sense engineering. It is made by the sort of people who will decide Britain’s industrial future. Simon Dowson and Nick Carpenter are blokes you’d be proud to cite as representatives of this country’s capabilities. They need £1.5 million for a next phase. Had I access to that kind of dosh, it would be my pleasure and pride to press a cheque into their hands.
If this car is really fun to drive, with a 200 mile real-world range, then it deserves all car enthusiast's respect. I was invited to be at the launch on monday, but i'm living in Delhi now so couldn't go. I'm gutted though as i was really interested in the vehicle.
Here's Steve Cropley's blog for anyone who's interested:
The epitome of a British future car...
Steve Cropley
Today at Silverstone, I had a fascinating glimpse of the British motor industry’s future, in the form of a deeply impressive all-carbon, all-electric coupe called Delta E4. It was both moving and exciting.
The E4 has just been revealed by one of the UK’s new-wave of quick-thinking, quick-acting automotive consultancies, Delta Motorsport, who invited a bunch of hacks in for a first drive.
Delta’s two British principals, Nick Carpenter and Simon Dowson, spent three years dreaming up a “pet” low-carbon project, while working on other economy cars and motorsport projects. Then, starting in 2009, they took ‘way less than two years — and a paltry £750,000 of public money — to produce a run of five remarkably good-looking, capable and well finished little battery-powered E4 two-plus-twos. First of all they look great, because the styling was put in the hands of a design professional, but there’s much more to them than that.
The car, financed by grants from the East Midlands Development Agency and the Technology Strategy Board, is rear-driven by a pair of Oxford YASA electric motors (made by another new young and thriving British company, based close to the Dreaming Spires as the name suggests). It is capable of a 0-60 mph sprint in 6.5 seconds. Top speed is 116 mph, the range is 140 miles and the kerb weight is an amazingly low 975 kg despite the fact that the 32kW/h battery pack weighs around 350kg.
The secrets of the low weight are a small road footprint, an all-carbon fibre chassis (made in a form that would allow production of more than 10,000 cars a year, at £60,000 to £70,000 a copy) and you can throw in sophisticated electronics and aerodynamics, that further improve the efficiency.
I say “would allow” because Delta has done as much as it can with our £750k. It has practically run out. They will use what remains to run the cars for a year, gathering user info and refining them as they go. They will also use the time to look for more backing, perhaps for a well-financed partner to take the project to production.
What makes this car special for me is seeing just how much has been achieved with so little money, and experiencing the car from behind the wheel. It is pretty, roomy, well-made, easy to drive, sporty, nippy (a 4x4 version with double the poke would be nippier) and about as far from the many lash-up prototypes I’ve seen in my life as it is possible to get.
This, to me, is the epitome of a British future car, packed with high technology and good-sense engineering. It is made by the sort of people who will decide Britain’s industrial future. Simon Dowson and Nick Carpenter are blokes you’d be proud to cite as representatives of this country’s capabilities. They need £1.5 million for a next phase. Had I access to that kind of dosh, it would be my pleasure and pride to press a cheque into their hands.
Max_Torque said:
Here's the rub though, all these various people that develop cutting edge future technologies always focus on the "technology" The thing is, the "technology" is not the problem, it is the "cost"!
what we need is a normal Ford Fiesta (say) that looks, drives, and costs the same as a current Fiesta, but just happens to run on electrickery ;-)
Well said. I'm sick to death of manufacturers telling us that these new electric offerings (Leaf, Ion, i-Miev) cost next to bugger all to run, you can get into London for free and there's zero road tax or BIK. I don't live in London and am sure I won't need to drive through it anytime soon. I live in Rochdale, commute 8 miles each way to work on crap roads doing 20-40mph and would be an ideal candidate for a shift over to electric.what we need is a normal Ford Fiesta (say) that looks, drives, and costs the same as a current Fiesta, but just happens to run on electrickery ;-)
What they don't tell you is that for less, you can have a car with a combustion engine that pence per mile over 4 years, costs exactly the same. If you want a little excitement, the Mini Cooper D comes in at less money, zero MVL and CC charge and has the added perk of a recharge , sorry refuel time of 3 minutes and massive range.
Edited to add that there will be those that bleat about the time it takes for the tech to become cheaper and filter down from these initial offerings. How long have cars and electricity been around? If we hadn't been so quick to mock Clive Sinclair in the 80s, we might be better off now. Duty on electricity for road use would be astronomical though...
Unless EVs become very attractive to buy (eg the price of a 107) with the added bonus of costing bugger all to run, I'm sold. But when you effectively pay for four years worth of petrol up front, forget it.
Edited by iain1970 on Friday 13th May 08:58
Talksteer said:
Lithium air batteries would murder petrol driven cars from a performance perspective.
Electric motors are around 3 times more efficient at converting energy from the battery to motion and about 1/5 the weight of a petrol engine of equivalent power. Remove the gearbox, clutch, 80% of the cooling capacity and a lot of the structure required to support the running gear the electric package would be lighter, smaller and much lower in the vehicle.
In the short term expect reasonably large improvements in battery performance. Not because the underlying technology improves but due to a very rapid learning curve in terms of putting batteries into automotive traction.
The packing methods used to build the first generation of automotive batteries will be inefficient, the connections between cells will be conservative sized. The cells themselves will be conservative in their operating parameters to guaranteed a long battery life.
If you look at the energy density of the Tesla Roadster and Model S's batteries in comparison with those of the Leaf and Volt you would see a fairly massive improvement in range/performance just be putting Tesla's current batteries in those cars.
But even the the best optimistic theoretical estimates for metal/air batteries are less than you get for liquid chemical energy storage. The sensible estimates put them around 3-5MJ/kg compared to 40-45MJ/kg for liquid chemical storage. But thats all theory. They were messing with FI for cars decades before it made it to mass production.Electric motors are around 3 times more efficient at converting energy from the battery to motion and about 1/5 the weight of a petrol engine of equivalent power. Remove the gearbox, clutch, 80% of the cooling capacity and a lot of the structure required to support the running gear the electric package would be lighter, smaller and much lower in the vehicle.
In the short term expect reasonably large improvements in battery performance. Not because the underlying technology improves but due to a very rapid learning curve in terms of putting batteries into automotive traction.
The packing methods used to build the first generation of automotive batteries will be inefficient, the connections between cells will be conservative sized. The cells themselves will be conservative in their operating parameters to guaranteed a long battery life.
If you look at the energy density of the Tesla Roadster and Model S's batteries in comparison with those of the Leaf and Volt you would see a fairly massive improvement in range/performance just be putting Tesla's current batteries in those cars.
Plus you'll still need a gearbox in an electric car, it might only be a single speed but it will be necessary. An IC engine doesn't need huge and heavy power electronics to drive it, it needs a few little boxes weighing less than a kg in total.
Really comparing weights of IC engines vs electric motors is like apples and pears - they're completely different things. Better to compare the whole powertrain including fuel source as either engine is useless without a powersource.
For 200 miles of travel - 350kg worth of batteries vs maybe 20 litres of diesel (i.e. 200 miles in less than 50mpg) -> 18kg of fuel. Tank plus pumps etc is lets be generous 15kg -> 33kg total. So the petrol engine plus gearbox plus clutch plus cooling system etc can be over 300kg heavier than the EM before its actually heavier in total.
Traction drives in cars isn't a million miles away from that in electric trains which have been around for a long long time. There will be some gains to be made as trains don't generally care about weight so lighter motors are possible and should be achievable in a couple of generations but the drive electronics is all well trodden paths and although they're still advancing I wouldn't expect any quantum leaps unless general semiconductor tech does.
If the car was really light weight they'd be telling you the total kerb weight inc batteries. I suspect its probably around a ton plus so nothing special for a 2+2. The EV only gives them a bit more flexibility to move stuff around but that could probably be done with some clever gearbox and engine design anyway.
I can't see why these companies don't focus on a lightweight and efficient IC engine'd car. With all that technology and ability surely they could knock up a small Mini-like car with a tiny diesel engine and a kerb weight under 500kg. Carbon fibre chassis, sub 500cc diesel with a turbo on it, good aero, stop start etc. If that's where the market is gonna be for the next 15-20 years while battery tech catches up, British technology should stop looking at pie in the sky and focus on selling stuff tomorrow rather than next year. I suspect the answer is if they said they wanted to put an IC in the car their research grant would have disappeared instantly. Bloody politics.
Once (if?) battery technology catches up then EVs will be a sensible proposition. If someone can show me a credible and proven battery technology moving to within about 1/3rd the capacity / weight of a fossil fuel then I'll be all ears and first to jump on the EV bandwagon, until then I'll carry on with the hydrocarbons.
Bummer didn't really mean to go all Bah Humbug on British Technology but I seem to have done it again.
ZeeTacoe said:
thinfourth2 said:
Also current fast charger tech can put a battery up to 80% charged in the crucial having a cup of tea and going for a wizz timeframe.
All it really needs is for service stations to have a fast charger or two and it will mean you can run electric as your only car if you have a driveway.
Really? Got a link for that , it sounds interesting..All it really needs is for service stations to have a fast charger or two and it will mean you can run electric as your only car if you have a driveway.
80% full in 30 minutes which is a bit more then a cup of tea and going for a wizz timeframe. More like cup of tea, bacon butty and leisurely pooh timeframe.
But if you only do one long distance journey a month 30Minutes isn't going to kill you unless you are stressed eric.
The tech is here to make electric cars usable just the willing isn't
But this is pistonheads where we all commute 400 miles a day to work and back.
Chris71 said:
The problem is electricity - or rather battery-storage - is a fundamentally compromised way of producing a car. You need a very low CD and clever weight reduction techniques to make them competitive.
Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
Indeed. There is no issue with building an electric car etc, it is all old news. The problem always has been and still very much is the batteries.Batteries are about a hundred times less energy dense (by mass) than petrol; the cost of the storage medium (i.e. the tank/battery) is about a thousand times higher; and it takes ten times longer to transfer the equivalent energy during battery recharging than it does in refuelling a car. So you have a very different task.
By applying a different approach rather than trying to 'electrify' a normal IC-engined car Delta has made something that actually appears to offer a more or less viable alternative. It feels not unlike a slightly bigger, heavier Elise from behind the wheel.
The cost remains a problem, but things like the press-moulded carbon fibre used on the E-4 bring it a lot closer to a realistic level. Don't forget even the most basic 'dog cart' was a luxury for the very rich when IC-engined cars first appeared at the end of the 19th century. We're only just starting to see serious development on electric cars.
There are two total solutions to this problem. Making cars lighter and more aero dynamic are not solutions, they are simply ways in which to try and make living with the problem a little easier.
The two solutions are:
1. totally new battery tech.
2. drive in drive out battery replacement.
The former is anything from a year to a thousand years away. As such not remotely credible for building an economic business around.
So this leaves the latter. We either have gas stations with super charging facilities, but this won't work as land is sparce and if it takes more than a few minutes you are going to have jams back up the main road. So, the only possible solution is for the industry, to standardise the power packs and you simply drive into a special bay which drops the flat one out the bottom, replaces it with a full one and debits your card by the electricity differential between the two plus a fixed handling fee.
The only slight problem with this is that it would need to be done by the companies that own the petrol stations and the companies that build petrol cars.
And there lies the rub.
As such, it leaves us with a market which is only accessible to those who can home charge overnight and who make relatively short journeys on their daily commute.
With much of the population living in towns where they do not have a garage or a drive then this limits the market somewhat.
This is a smaller market so costs are spread less thinly. Plus, to target this market you need to use modern tech to reduce drag and weight to try and get the batteries to last the average commute with lights and heaters on and still have plenty of charge left to reassure the owner.
I have to say that I am one of those people who cannot wait for a credible electric solution to my boring runabout driving.
DonkeyApple said:
As such, it leaves us with a market which is only accessible to those who can home charge overnight and who make relatively short journeys on their daily commute.
.
Guestimated to be 36% of households in the UK have a driveway..
Also no matter what tech comes along tomorrow only 10% of cars get replaced a year so even if we stop buying petrol cars today it will still take about ten years for 95% of cars in the UK the be battery powered.
I guess in ten years time 20% of cars will be electric and will be used for the boring stuff like the commute and school run. Electric cars will replace the ford fiesta not the porsche 911. So that shoots the argument that electric cars are dull down in flames as lets face it a ford fiesta isn't exactly a ball of excitement with a tuneful V8.
Talksteer said:
Lithium air batteries would murder petrol driven cars from a performance perspective.
Electric motors are around 3 times more efficient at converting energy from the battery to motion and about 1/5 the weight of a petrol engine of equivalent power. Remove the gearbox, clutch, 80% of the cooling capacity and a lot of the structure required to support the running gear the electric package would be lighter, smaller and much lower in the vehicle.
Maybe true, but you need to compare apples with apples! comparing a cutting edge mega ££ prototype technology with a mass produced affordable off-the-shelf solution is not really fair. if you want to compare, i say lets race your "lithium air" powered car against, oh, lets say this years Mclaren F1 car.......... (not looking quite so confident now are we ;-)Electric motors are around 3 times more efficient at converting energy from the battery to motion and about 1/5 the weight of a petrol engine of equivalent power. Remove the gearbox, clutch, 80% of the cooling capacity and a lot of the structure required to support the running gear the electric package would be lighter, smaller and much lower in the vehicle.
(F1 engine (3.0l) <100kg and >900bhp, thats very nearly 10bhp per kg) certainly a figure that can be matched by an electric motor, but not for very long before it melts!)
"lightweight" electic powertrains are not really feasible once you get over approx 50kW, anyone who doubts that is welcome to come round and try my drop test (which is where we drop various bits of cars onto people toes to gauge the relative masses of said items;-).
In my current project, just the motor phase cables are over 30kg on there own.
The Crack Fox said:
I'm still uncomfortable with tax-payers money being thrown at yet another 'eco-car' that will almost certainly never reach production and is of little or no benefit to the motoring public. I'd perhaps be a little more forgiving if the thing didn't look like a budget kit car.
FWIW, you should see my stinking letter to the RDA when they organised and funded a 'workshop for buying from China', how the funk does that help the local economy?
Think about it...if you insist on less of the former, you'll get much much more of the latter? FWIW, you should see my stinking letter to the RDA when they organised and funded a 'workshop for buying from China', how the funk does that help the local economy?
This country used to be an industrial and technology development powerhouse.
Now we're just a load of cynical grumps
Sorry, I like it and am happy to see out money used in a good positive way: Firstly investing in the future with supporting students in this way... Innovation like that over the years put the Great in Great Britain and secondly investing in future power sources for when the wells run dry.
I for one would happily commute in this on my 100 mile a day round trip, especially now we have four charging points at the office.
I for one would happily commute in this on my 100 mile a day round trip, especially now we have four charging points at the office.
Looks like a Mk1 Insight attempted to eat a Corvette!
I'm all for electric cars (I like the idea of instant maximum torque- tyres beware!), however, I just feel that ATM, they're too expensive and aren't practical enough. Seems that to get any decent range or performance, you have to make it very light and aerodynamic. That's all well and good, but that essentially means two seats and negligible boot space, and for people like me, I want one car that can do most things reasonably well. I can't afford one insanely expensive commuter car and a larger car for going on longer journeys/shopping/moving/recreation. I also don't want to drive around in something that looks like a Cozy Coupe/G-Whizz.
I have seen a few Chevy Volts on the road now, and I actually like the looks, but at ~50 grand USD there are so many other cars I'd have instead.
Bottom line is, I can't see full-electric cars being a viable proposition for the majority of people in this decade or the next. Or the one after that.
I'm all for electric cars (I like the idea of instant maximum torque- tyres beware!), however, I just feel that ATM, they're too expensive and aren't practical enough. Seems that to get any decent range or performance, you have to make it very light and aerodynamic. That's all well and good, but that essentially means two seats and negligible boot space, and for people like me, I want one car that can do most things reasonably well. I can't afford one insanely expensive commuter car and a larger car for going on longer journeys/shopping/moving/recreation. I also don't want to drive around in something that looks like a Cozy Coupe/G-Whizz.
I have seen a few Chevy Volts on the road now, and I actually like the looks, but at ~50 grand USD there are so many other cars I'd have instead.
Bottom line is, I can't see full-electric cars being a viable proposition for the majority of people in this decade or the next. Or the one after that.
bobberz said:
Bottom line is, I can't see full-electric cars being a viable proposition for the majority of people in this decade or the next. Or the one after that.
As the majority of the car using population never drives less then 50 miles at a time as they can't go to the shops 4 miles away they MUST drive to the shops in the next town which is 50 miles awayAnd the majority of the car using population never sleeps for more then 4 hours
And the majority of the population does a 500 miles journey once a week and can easily have a cup of tea and a bacon butty in under 5 minutes.
Or you could subscribe to my view that if we had fast chargers every 50 miles or so on main roads any normal person that has a driveway could survive with an electric car as most journeys are under 20 miles and a 30 minute fast charge while a pain in the butt is a great time to stop and have cup of tea.
Any car that means i don't have to visit petrol stations weekly and gives me the excuse to drink more tea would be very welcome. But only if it is good tea
thinfourth2 said:
bobberz said:
Bottom line is, I can't see full-electric cars being a viable proposition for the majority of people in this decade or the next. Or the one after that.
As the majority of the car using population never drives less then 50 miles at a time as they can't go to the shops 4 miles away they MUST drive to the shops in the next town which is 50 miles awayAnd the majority of the car using population never sleeps for more then 4 hours
And the majority of the population does a 500 miles journey once a week and can easily have a cup of tea and a bacon butty in under 5 minutes.
Or you could subscribe to my view that IF we had fast chargers every 50 miles or so on main roads any normal person that has a driveway could survive with an electric car as most journeys are under 20 miles and a 30 minute fast charge while a pain in the butt is a great time to stop and have cup of tea.
Any car that means i don't have to visit petrol stations weekly and gives me the excuse to drink more tea would be very welcome. But only if it is good tea
In addition, how large would these facilities have to be? Filling up with petrol takes at most, two or 3 minutes, yet I still see lines at stations that have 10 pumps or more. Imagine the lines if each "fill up" took 30 minutes!
Also, your figure of 50 miles is a bit optimistic as well. Current electric cars such as the Mitsubishi i-Miev could make it, but any sort of "spirited" driving will have your eyes glued to the state of charge gauge.
So, I stand by my argument that electric cars are currently not very viable alternatives, and won't be for at least another couple of decades.
bobberz said:
In addition, how large would these facilities have to be? Filling up with petrol takes at most, two or 3 minutes, yet I still see lines at stations that have 10 pumps or more. Imagine the lines if each "fill up" took 30 minutes!
Also, your figure of 50 miles is a bit optimistic as well. Current electric cars such as the Mitsubishi i-Miev could make it, but any sort of "spirited" driving will have your eyes glued to the state of charge gauge.
So, I stand by my argument that electric cars are currently not very viable alternatives, and won't be for at least another couple of decades.
Yes you can fill up a dino powered car in five minutes. But you can't fill it up at home. If you could fill your dino powered car up at home would you go to the hassle of going to a petrol station every time you need to fill up.Also, your figure of 50 miles is a bit optimistic as well. Current electric cars such as the Mitsubishi i-Miev could make it, but any sort of "spirited" driving will have your eyes glued to the state of charge gauge.
So, I stand by my argument that electric cars are currently not very viable alternatives, and won't be for at least another couple of decades.
If I had an electric car to replace my commuter shed it would only be recharged at home.
But the main reason that recharge facilities would be small is the vast majority of cars sold will be dino powered for the once a year drive to grannies.
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