RE: Driven: McLaren MP4-12C

[ANDYCLAX]

GFWilliams said:

DeltaEvo2 said:

You got links, I haven't driven the cars.

I haven't driven either, but have had a ride in both and have spoken in depth to people who have driven both (and have both on order).

Hopefully I'll one day get a drive in one, but it's 6 years before I've got a chance of being insured

ive driven both,and the 12c is streets ahead,as THE PITS says a customer 458 is not at all like the one provided to the magazines,but they cannot let the cat out of the bag,as they will never get another ,and thats death to a car mag!
But ive been promised in writing that Mclaren would never stoop so low.(not in their words)They said any magazine car would be representative of a customer car,in fact the customer cars are far superior to the PP cars provided to the magazines a couple of months ago,so wait for the next reviews and laptimes,especially the ring time

[dlist]

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

Have you read this?

[The Pits]

For one thing they're famous for bringing a car set up for lap times and another for setting performance figures. Two very different set ups, neither of which are available to the buying public.

[Dagnut]

dlist said:

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

Have you read this?

For whose benefit is Chris Harris doing this? I'm not disputing what he says is true but why the rant now, it's been pretty much common knowledge for a while no?

[ANDYCLAX]

Dagnut said:

dlist said:

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

Have you read this?

For whose benefit is Chris Harris doing this? I'm not disputing what he says is true but why the rant now, it's been pretty much common knowledge for a while no?

Interesting,seems to negate 99% of DELTAEVO2 comments,and when you drive the 2 cars back to back as customer cars the 12c is considerably the better car,shame that no magazine is going to do that or they will be banned for life from testing another red car.
Point being that the topgear laptimes will be correct as they dont have anything to lose as its only a small part of an entertainment program.Also they were the only people on the planet that slagged off the 599gto so they are not interested in taking it from behind like most of the automotive press.The power of the media eh!!
Interesting to see how much faster a 12c is on the American topgear seen as they also have a current time for a 458(only 1 time aloud)

[ANDYCLAX]

Dagnut said:

dlist said:

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

Have you read this?

For whose benefit is Chris Harris doing this? I'm not disputing what he says is true but why the rant now, it's been pretty much common knowledge for a while no?

Interesting,seems to negate 99% of DELTAEVO2 comments,and when you drive the 2 cars back to back as customer cars the 12c is considerably the better car,shame that no magazine is going to do that or they will be banned for life from testing another red car.
Point being that the topgear laptimes will be correct as they dont have anything to lose as its only a small part of an entertainment program.Also they were the only people on the planet that slagged off the 599gto so they are not interested in taking it from behind like most of the automotive press.The power of the media eh!!
Interesting to see how much faster a 12c is on the American topgear seen as they also have a current time for a 458(only 1 time aloud)

[suffolk009]

Dagnut said:

For whose benefit is Chris Harris doing this? I'm not disputing what he says is true but why the rant now, it's been pretty much common knowledge for a while no?

I was the OP of WHY DO ALL THE MAGS PREFER THE 458 TO THE MP4-12C. It ran for pages, much of it subjective bluster, much of it interesting discussion. I think what I was getting at is written up quite nicely in Chris Harris' piece. Maybe EVO has decided to get away from the gravy train and start testing customer cars. Would put them a few months behind the other mags but what a brilliant USP for their reviews. One way to stand out from the crowd, and make a serious name for yourself.

Obviously every one wants to read about THE NEW CAR, but I have every copy of EVO and frequently go back to original press drives. If I was thinking of a Lotus Elise S1 but couldn't decide which model, then original reiews are good. If you're after a sixties classic then original Motorsport roadtests are also good. Buying old cars after reviews in classic mags is always tricky because of the rose-coloured nostalgia, and values. So look to the original journos verdicts, they often suprise.

Good on Chris Harris for taking what he does seriously enough to want to have some integrity in his writing.

[Dagnut]

Probably just a personal thing, been an EVO customer for a long time but Harris has just started to get up my nose.

[The Pits]

Harris is another one of the '458 is more emotional than the MP4 12C' brigade too.

Steve Sutcliffe, who's opinion I trust more, was also bravely very critical of Ferrari's approach to supplying cars for road tests.

I think they annoyed him by accusing him of not driving fast enough! Along with Harris, Sutters would be up there among the quicker jouros round a track, so I think they hurt his pride a little!

[P9UNK]

[quote=Dagnut]I complain about living in England..a lot...the roads.. the public transport...the general ar$e the local authorities and government make of everything....then you see this piece of exceptional understated brilliance and you think "where did it go wrong? how did the wrong clowns get in charge?"

go live in 90% of the countries in the world and you would complain a little less, I have lived in the US and Hungary and travelled extensively, no where is perfect and the UK holds up well and is in fact a very modern and liberal place to live. As for our car industry we are still players on a world scale, even although with global companies involved. Glass to me is half full. Lotus and McLaren between them revolutionised the term 'performance car' not bad for a small country.

[Dagnut]

P9UNK said:

I complain about living in England..a lot...the roads.. the public transport...the general ar$e the local authorities and government make of everything....then you see this piece of exceptional understated brilliance and you think "where did it go wrong? how did the wrong clowns get in charge?"

go live in 90% of the countries in the world and you would complain a little less, I have lived in the US and Hungary and travelled extensively, no where is perfect and the UK holds up well and is in fact a very modern and liberal place to live. As for our car industry we are still players on a world scale, even although with global companies involved. Glass to me is half full. Lotus and McLaren between them revolutionised the term 'performance car' not bad for a small country.

That wasn't the point, I'm lucky to live here, I know that it just amazes me how a country with so many skilled engineers can be so poor at manufacturing. Britain is now where near a player on the world scale in the car industry ,where are you getting that from? A small country with the 6th largest economy?

[TVRWannabee]

Dagnut said:

That wasn't the point, I'm lucky to live here, I know that it just amazes me how a country with so many skilled engineers can be so poor at manufacturing. Britain is now where near a player on the world scale in the car industry ,where are you getting that from? A small country with the 6th largest economy?

Sadly, engineering and business skills are different and that is where the problem lies. I guess it depends on your definition of 'a world player' - in terms of volume, probably not, but in terms of engineering (as you say) we may well be up there.

I'm afraid we have a bit of a history of inventing so much only to lose it to another country (mostly America!). We come up with the ideas, somebody else turns it into a big business.

[Dagnut]

TVRWannabee said:

Sadly, engineering and business skills are different and that is where the problem lies. I guess it depends on your definition of 'a world player' - in terms of volume, probably not, but in terms of engineering (as you say) we may well be up there.

I'm afraid we have a bit of a history of inventing so much only to lose it to another country (mostly America!). We come up with the ideas, somebody else turns it into a big business.

That's what I was getting, thanks.