RE: You Know You Want To...DeTomaso Guara
Discussion
For those that maybe interested..
You know you want to... I did.
I bought the car from Belgium about 3 years ago now, we managed to agree a Euro price about 20% less than the original asking price, the exchange rate was ok then but not brilliant. Yes it was his personal car, but as a dealer they were always up for sale.
The car is an early one - cant remember if number 10 or 15, it was first sold in Austria in 2000, and I have it on a "W" plate.
Before I bought this I did view and drive Vario Robs, it was at an "administrator", and needed a little tidying, it had a cracked windscreen, I made a cheeky high £20K's offer, but was told it went to Germany for £40K, I managed to track down the last windscreen, but god knows what that cost.
The car is as per the pictures except the interior, I removed the ugly metal gate and gear lever and had a new leather gaiter made up and the original blue leather knob with the little De Tomaso Badge on the top - the same as they used on the Pantera, they must have a had a box left !! It needs a repaint, stone chips to the front and I have caught one of the sills getting it on and foo the ramp - it is very wide.
The original wheels are in the garage, but I like the BBS ones, the gold breaks up a sea of silver.. The rears sit on inch spacers so fill the wheel arches so much better than the original ones. I tried the spacers with the originals, but they wouldn't fit, and as centre lock it was not a simple case of getting longer bolts.
The car itself runs the BMW M60 V8 mated to an Audi RS2 gearbox. The electrics are BMW, with a couple of ford switches, the instruments are E34 M5. The side lights are MX5, I am not sure about the main ones, I don't think the "pod" is Mazda, and the two generic lights could be from anything. The front fog lights are the High Beam Flash - not sure if they were connected this way from the factory or not. Brakes are Brembo 4 piston supposedly from the F40.
Under the front clam shell you have a radiator - almost horizontal which doesn't help cooling, battery and suspension no storage.
At the rear you have, engine, suspension, fuel tank and large silencer. There is a storage box on the opposite side to the fuel tank, it is very much a fibre glass box, as opposed to a Zonda cf luggage compartment.
There are two fuel tanks, a large cube shaped one in the engine bay and another long one where the "transmission tunnel" sits. The central spine is hollow and they then put the fuel tank in their.
Attached to each end of the central spine are two magnesium plates, at the front they hang the subframe and suspension and the engine on the rear one. At the other end of the engine is "The Plate "( more on that later), and the gear box is attached to this. Suspension is push rod with the shocks in the middle of the car, all rose jointed no rubber.
The boot lid is carbon fibre, the rest of the car a mix of fibre glass I assume.
Driving the car.
Interior is a nice place to, be the seats are great, and unlike Alfa with the 4C, they have covered everything with soft leather - the dash may well be made from Cardboard, but covered in leather you would never know. It is symmetrical so swapping it from LHD to RHD shouldn't be that difficult, if you were ever interested. Once you put on the 4 point harness you cant adjust the seat !.
Vision initially appears good, there is lots of glass, however;
You sit very low and the side windows quite short.
The door mirrors are too close to you
As you sit down low you look up through the rear window, which gives you decent blind spots especially on the RHD.
The air intake sits behind the panel between the passengers, and I would be surprised if there was sound insulation.
Clutch is BMW so light and easy to use. There is no gate on the gear shift, hence somebody had put the metal one on to help. Initially you either engage reverse or third. 1st to reverse is very close with no change in feel or pressure as you move across the box. It takes while to get used to it.
It is very noisy !
The gearbox is not straight cut, but the plate between the engine and gearbox is, I believe it is because the engine and gear box did not line up, so they used this plate transfer the drive /power.
It wines in every gear, there is a sweet spot around 2700 revs where it really screams at you. Combine this with the intake and engine just behind your head and a loud exhaust, and a 2 hour drive is about enough. I went to the Ring in it and had a headache when we got there.
With no rubber in the suspension and it bangs and clatters over every bump in the road, it does tramline a bit, so it ends up being a very involving drive, I have easier cars to drive but this is special. It is very mechanical and you either like that or you don't. The suspension has almost limitless adjustment, you could really destroy the handling if you wanted to...
I have done a couple of track days in it and other than over heating brakes - poor air flow to them, it handled great, but as very wide and very short wheelbase if it goes you need to be a decent driver to catch it, I just ran backwards onto the grass.
It is a 20 year old car / engine so not as fast as modern stuff, I believe the S62 M5 engine would physically fit, but finding a good engine is no longer easy, plus the additional weight may upset the handling.
It is a very exciting drive, car people like it non car people don't, but you always get asked questions in Petrol Stations, and even in slow traffic on the motorway people will ask through the window.
Value now ?
There were two for sale in Europe earlier this year, with the less desirable Ford engine for €110,000 and €130,000, so on paper it has doubled.
Jay If you want a look / go I am just outside Dartford.
You know you want to... I did.
I bought the car from Belgium about 3 years ago now, we managed to agree a Euro price about 20% less than the original asking price, the exchange rate was ok then but not brilliant. Yes it was his personal car, but as a dealer they were always up for sale.
The car is an early one - cant remember if number 10 or 15, it was first sold in Austria in 2000, and I have it on a "W" plate.
Before I bought this I did view and drive Vario Robs, it was at an "administrator", and needed a little tidying, it had a cracked windscreen, I made a cheeky high £20K's offer, but was told it went to Germany for £40K, I managed to track down the last windscreen, but god knows what that cost.
The car is as per the pictures except the interior, I removed the ugly metal gate and gear lever and had a new leather gaiter made up and the original blue leather knob with the little De Tomaso Badge on the top - the same as they used on the Pantera, they must have a had a box left !! It needs a repaint, stone chips to the front and I have caught one of the sills getting it on and foo the ramp - it is very wide.
The original wheels are in the garage, but I like the BBS ones, the gold breaks up a sea of silver.. The rears sit on inch spacers so fill the wheel arches so much better than the original ones. I tried the spacers with the originals, but they wouldn't fit, and as centre lock it was not a simple case of getting longer bolts.
The car itself runs the BMW M60 V8 mated to an Audi RS2 gearbox. The electrics are BMW, with a couple of ford switches, the instruments are E34 M5. The side lights are MX5, I am not sure about the main ones, I don't think the "pod" is Mazda, and the two generic lights could be from anything. The front fog lights are the High Beam Flash - not sure if they were connected this way from the factory or not. Brakes are Brembo 4 piston supposedly from the F40.
Under the front clam shell you have a radiator - almost horizontal which doesn't help cooling, battery and suspension no storage.
At the rear you have, engine, suspension, fuel tank and large silencer. There is a storage box on the opposite side to the fuel tank, it is very much a fibre glass box, as opposed to a Zonda cf luggage compartment.
There are two fuel tanks, a large cube shaped one in the engine bay and another long one where the "transmission tunnel" sits. The central spine is hollow and they then put the fuel tank in their.
Attached to each end of the central spine are two magnesium plates, at the front they hang the subframe and suspension and the engine on the rear one. At the other end of the engine is "The Plate "( more on that later), and the gear box is attached to this. Suspension is push rod with the shocks in the middle of the car, all rose jointed no rubber.
The boot lid is carbon fibre, the rest of the car a mix of fibre glass I assume.
Driving the car.
Interior is a nice place to, be the seats are great, and unlike Alfa with the 4C, they have covered everything with soft leather - the dash may well be made from Cardboard, but covered in leather you would never know. It is symmetrical so swapping it from LHD to RHD shouldn't be that difficult, if you were ever interested. Once you put on the 4 point harness you cant adjust the seat !.
Vision initially appears good, there is lots of glass, however;
You sit very low and the side windows quite short.
The door mirrors are too close to you
As you sit down low you look up through the rear window, which gives you decent blind spots especially on the RHD.
The air intake sits behind the panel between the passengers, and I would be surprised if there was sound insulation.
Clutch is BMW so light and easy to use. There is no gate on the gear shift, hence somebody had put the metal one on to help. Initially you either engage reverse or third. 1st to reverse is very close with no change in feel or pressure as you move across the box. It takes while to get used to it.
It is very noisy !
The gearbox is not straight cut, but the plate between the engine and gearbox is, I believe it is because the engine and gear box did not line up, so they used this plate transfer the drive /power.
It wines in every gear, there is a sweet spot around 2700 revs where it really screams at you. Combine this with the intake and engine just behind your head and a loud exhaust, and a 2 hour drive is about enough. I went to the Ring in it and had a headache when we got there.
With no rubber in the suspension and it bangs and clatters over every bump in the road, it does tramline a bit, so it ends up being a very involving drive, I have easier cars to drive but this is special. It is very mechanical and you either like that or you don't. The suspension has almost limitless adjustment, you could really destroy the handling if you wanted to...
I have done a couple of track days in it and other than over heating brakes - poor air flow to them, it handled great, but as very wide and very short wheelbase if it goes you need to be a decent driver to catch it, I just ran backwards onto the grass.
It is a 20 year old car / engine so not as fast as modern stuff, I believe the S62 M5 engine would physically fit, but finding a good engine is no longer easy, plus the additional weight may upset the handling.
It is a very exciting drive, car people like it non car people don't, but you always get asked questions in Petrol Stations, and even in slow traffic on the motorway people will ask through the window.
Value now ?
There were two for sale in Europe earlier this year, with the less desirable Ford engine for €110,000 and €130,000, so on paper it has doubled.
Jay If you want a look / go I am just outside Dartford.
Escy said:
Get the footage up on Youtube, I want to see it.
Sorry, Escy, but I never share videos from my dash-cam just in case the footage is used against any of the the drivers.del mar said:
Jay If you want a look / go I am just outside Dartford.
Hi Del. Thanks for the write up and info on the de Tomaso. It's rare to hear from people who actually own / drive rare cars like this.Have you driven the Ford powered version to compare the two? I wonder if the larger, heavier Ford engine ruined the handling.
And thanks for the kind offer. I'm in Bexleyheath so I'm pretty close to you. In fact if you ever drive to Bexleyheath from Dartford you will pass my house with the car on the driveway. I'd love to have a close look at your car, and maybe take some photos. With photography being my passion I'd enjoy taking some shots of this rare beast.
http://jasonsteelphotography.synthasite.com/cayman...
www.jason-steel.co.uk
Edited by JaySteel on Friday 7th July 21:15
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