RE: Driven: Mini Coupe

[300bhp/ton]

Mr2Mike said:

Twincam16 said:

I've changed my mind about the MINI. I don't mind it. People say that it's at odds with Issigonis' recipe for a small car, but they also forget that he built an entire range around it, in different sizes.

I don't see how that is relevant as none of them were called "mini", and even though their were numerous similarities in the design they were larger cars for a different market segment.

It's 100% relevant as the current MINI isn't badged a BMW - its it's own brand!!!!!

And do you seriously think the current MINI's aren't aimed at different market segments???

[Mr2Mike]

300bhp/ton said:

It's 100% relevant as the current MINI isn't badged a BMW - its it's own brand!!!!!

If the Land crab had been badged as an "1800 Mini" it just might be relevant. As they didn't it's not relevant. Is the X5 an extension of the MINI range simply because it's also made by BMW?

300bhp/ton said:

And do you seriously think the current MINI's aren't aimed at different market segments???

I am talking about the size (and therefore the likely use). The majority of the MINI derivatives are supermini sized. The 1100 and Land crab etc. were significantly larger (and more expensive) than the mini and were therefore destined for a completely different market segment. A single person wanting a supermini for commuting in a city could be happy with almost any of the MINI variants, but they are unlikely to choose a BMW 3 Series. Same goes for the mini and 1800.

[Twincam16]

Mr2Mike said:

300bhp/ton said:

It's 100% relevant as the current MINI isn't badged a BMW - its it's own brand!!!!!

If the Land crab had been badged as an "1800 Mini" it just might be relevant. As they didn't it's not relevant. Is the X5 an extension of the MINI range simply because it's also made by BMW?

300bhp/ton said:

And do you seriously think the current MINI's aren't aimed at different market segments???

I am talking about the size (and therefore the likely use). The majority of the MINI derivatives are supermini sized. The 1100 and Land crab etc. were significantly larger (and more expensive) than the mini and were therefore destined for a completely different market segment. A single person wanting a supermini for commuting in a city could be happy with almost any of the MINI variants, but they are unlikely to choose a BMW 3 Series. Same goes for the mini and 1800.

Unfortunately you've fallen for the modern notion that cars are marketing first, engineering second.

The Mini, 1100/1300 and 1800/2200 were all Issigonis designs based on the same engineering principles. Short bonnet proportionately to the rest of the car, maximised space inside passenger 'cube', boot space 'tucked under' rear seat to shorten rear section, transverse engine and gearbox mounted in sump to minimise frontal area. They weren't all called Minis because Mini, funnily enough, was a piece of engineering rather than a 'brand', and that same piece of engineering inspired the rest of the range.

Strip away all the marketing hogwash and cars are engineering first and foremost.

[300bhp/ton]

Mr2Mike said:

If the Land crab had been badged as an "1800 Mini" it just might be relevant. As they didn't it's not relevant. Is the X5 an extension of the MINI range simply because it's also made by BMW?

You seem to be totally misunderstanding here..... BMW own MINI. It does not then mean every car is actually a BMW.

MINI is a brand (a make, if it's easier to understand) in it's own right.

Just as General Motors owns Vauxhall, Holden, Chevrolet, Cadillac.

The MINI brand has evolved from a single model into an entire marque of it's own.

Mr2Mike said:

I am talking about the size (and therefore the likely use). The majority of the MINI derivatives are supermini sized. The 1100 and Land crab etc. were significantly larger (and more expensive) than the mini and were therefore destined for a completely different market segment. A single person wanting a supermini for commuting in a city could be happy with almost any of the MINI variants, but they are unlikely to choose a BMW 3 Series. Same goes for the mini and 1800.

What are you on about??

Earlier you where moaning the MINI is too big, now you're saying it's too small?

The line up is pretty easy to follow really....

MINI - One, Cooper and S. This is a made in the likeness of the original classic, it's still a supermini class vehicle or city car. But has been marketed as a style icon and has created a huge following from people wanting to own it as it's a MINI and because of how it looks. The S fulfilled a performance niche. This is still a 4 seater car.

Clubman - well it's a little bit bigger and little more practical. So if you still want a MINI but find the regular hatch too small, then you still can. This fulfills very much the same role as the Mini Traveler did all those years ago. If you need something to compare too, think of the Clubman as almost an estate version, i.e. the MK1 Focus could be had as a hatch or an estate. The latter was just a little bigger and more practical. The MINI's do the same thing, only a size scale down and retain the up market and trendy image.

Countryman - crossovers, SUV's and 4x4's are all popular and big business. And at the end of the day, car makers are there to sell cars and make money. If you've have a MINI and decide you want something slightly bigger again and AWD, then the Countryman fulfills this brief without punting customers off to a different car maker. It also broadens the appeal of the MINI brand and range. So if you've got 4.2 children and a partner, a Countryman could easily be the family car. However it's still small. It's small compared to some hatches and tiny compared to other 4x4's of similar ilk

Coupe - I do think this treads on the toes slightly of the 3 door hatch. But it's a dedicated two seater and a coupe (it appeals to many who don't want a hatch). And as stated, I think BMW are prepping the ground work for a new smaller MINI anyhow. So it's all part of a much bigger, wider and longer term strategy.



Hatch:
4 seater for occasional rear seat use
2 seater shooting break style coupe with rear seats folded down
Also currently the only open top MINI available

Clubman:
More frequent use 4 seat
Better boot and hauling ability

Countryman:
AWD
Proper 4 seater 4 door
Family car
More spacious daily driver

Coupe:
Dedicated 2 seater
Tin top coupe looks

[Mr2Mike]

300bhp/ton said:

Mr2Mike said:

If the Land crab had been badged as an "1800 Mini" it just might be relevant. As they didn't it's not relevant. Is the X5 an extension of the MINI range simply because it's also made by BMW?

You seem to be totally misunderstanding here..... BMW own MINI. It does not then mean every car is actually a BMW.

MINI is a brand (a make, if it's easier to understand) in it's own right.

Just as General Motors owns Vauxhall, Holden, Chevrolet, Cadillac.

The MINI brand has evolved from a single model into an entire marque of it's own.

I'm arguing the point that the range is somehow equivalent to the old BMC cars, which they blatantly are not.

300bhp/ton said:

Mr2Mike said:

I am talking about the size (and therefore the likely use). The majority of the MINI derivatives are supermini sized. The 1100 and Land crab etc. were significantly larger (and more expensive) than the mini and were therefore destined for a completely different market segment. A single person wanting a supermini for commuting in a city could be happy with almost any of the MINI variants, but they are unlikely to choose a BMW 3 Series. Same goes for the mini and 1800.

What are you on about??

Earlier you where moaning the MINI is too big, now you're saying it's too small?

If you could highlight the point where I suggest the MINI is too small that would be very helpful, as you appear to have simply made that up.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 27th September 16:02

[Oggs]

I had a play in a CooperS model yesterday
Handling wise it is like the other Minis, view out the back is ok even with the spoiler that comes up at 50mph..... or if put up manually.

Looks wise are marmite but for me it looks ok but would better as a convertible which is out in March...