RE: PH Fleet: VW Golf GTI Edition 35

[kambites]

mooseracer said:

CDP said:

Should really be under £20K for the entry model, thirty grand is a joke. The Octavia shares an awful lot more than just engine and transmission with the Golf so I know what I'd pick. Skoda really are occupying the place VW should be in these days.

Why would VW want to place their products at the same price as Skoda, a brand they own?

Quite. As long as people are willing to pay an extra 20% for the "higher quality brand", why would they sell it for less? As long as they can get away with making 90% of the car the same and still maintaining that price gap, they're onto a winner. They aren't a charity.

[miniandy]

toppstuff said:

When it comes to sharing of components and tech across multiple brands, I think you are kind of kidding yourself there, fella.

Make no mistake, VAG pay maximum effort to ensuring that when cars can share parts, they do. It is why the Golf is so profitable and why VAG is successful.

Do not get me wrong, I am not bashing the Golf - it is a very fine car.

But I think there is no doubt that the perception of increased "quality" and "prestige" of VW and Audi over other VAG brands is based more on marketing than substance. In fact, it is worth remembering that the best performing brand inside the whole VAG group in terms of reliability and customer satisfaction is Skoda.

The Golf is a very, very nice car. But the extra "quality" you paid for the brand is largely paying for an illusion. The Golf is no doubt better than an Octavia, but it sure is'nt 2x better.

I'm very much aware about the sharing of parts/components that goes on in these large manufacturing groups, but my point is that I still believe that these two are completely different cars for a number of reasons. Yes, I agree that the marketing of each brand has something to do with it, but when you're sitting in a GTI you feel like you're sitting in a more premium car than if you were sitting in an Octavia vRS, or for that matter, a Megane RS. All three are great cars, each with their own positives and negatives as I alluded to earlier, all three cost roughly the same, and do roughly the same job, but I don't believe that by buying a Golf I'm paying for an illusion. I'm paying for VAG build quality, the Brand, the GTI badge, the quality of the fixtures and fittings inside, the way it looks etc etc all of which are noticeably 'premium' to what's installed in a Skoda.

[elementad]

"all rounder all rounder". Who wants an "all rounder" at £34,000 apart from reps?

You can buy "all rounder" stereo systems but we all know separates are better.

You could invent a suit that you can run to work in, sweat like a pig and then sit down at your desk in the same attire - but people wouldn't want to.

The other golfs offer the same package (minus the "ok" performance) for less so the folks buying this are clearly interested IN the performance. Would you NOT want a more stylish looking car for your £34,000?

This is marketed at the masses just like pop music is on x factor. Anyone who knows anything about cars wouldn't plonk £34,000 down on that unless they shat money every morning and had a broken flush

[Chicane-UK]

What's with the alloy wheels? They're off the "cold" versions of MK5 Golfs aren't they?!

[kambites]

miniandy said:

... but when you're sitting in a GTI you feel like you're sitting in a more premium car than if you were sitting in an Octavia vRS, or for that matter, a Megane RS...

When you are you may do. I couldn't honestly see a difference between the Octavia, Golf and A3 in terms of interior quality. Ultimately the reason we got the Skoda was that the wife thought it had the nicest interior; interestingly of the VAG brands she rated the A3 last, after the Golf. Well that and the fact that it was cheaper.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th January 14:54

[miniandy]

nickfrog said:

Didn't realise that the Megane and X-trail shared the same platform ?

I have no problems with people paying a lot of money for what they perceive as a "premium" product but it drives literaly like the Octavia, unsurprisingly.

The X-Trail and Koleos did, the Megane example was to illustrate the 'essentially the same' comparison used earlier. The Octavia is just like a Golf. But not a Golf. Sounds like a Golf?

[Motorrad]

What does a GTi do that a 'high power' diesel golf doesn't? I suppose it looks 'cooler' to some people and you can spec them better. Oddly enough VW don't offer a GTi with a diesel engine (I had a 25th anniversary MKIV that had a diesel engine and it was equally as crap as the 1.8T), I suspect because it would make the petrol car obsolete and weaken the brand they charge an outrageous premium for.

Ultimately the premium for the GTi isn't worth the increased costs. Might make sense in the UK for a lower miles user I suppose as you get ass raped on the price of diesel unlike those of us on the mainland.

I'm coming at this from the perspective of a serial golf gti owner having owned several of various generations. I'm just struggling to understand where in the current landscape a 30 grand + petrol powered golf fits in. They just aren't fun enough for the money.

[miniandy]

kambites said:

When you are you may do. I couldn't honestly see a difference between the Octavia, Golf and A3 in terms of interior quality. Ultimately the reason we got the Skoda was that the wife thought it had the nicest interior; interestingly of the VAG brands she rated the A3 last, after the Golf. Well that and the fact that it was cheaper.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th January 14:54

Precisely. And there are many more people out there that can see the difference. That's what makes each car buyer pretty much unique, and why companies like VAG have such a broad spectrum of offerings in their portfolios.

[Raja]

So what's the identical underneath offers from Skoda and Seat cost? It seems a lot of money even lightly specced up.

I actually prefer the last shape as well but maybe that's just me. Need a 'runner' of some sort as the Mk1 Campaign I've been trying to use is really missing some basic creature comforts. The last shape edition 30 is the only recent Golf I've though had some genuine style to it.

[Bitzer]

Motorrad said:

What does a GTi do that a 'high power' diesel golf doesn't? I suppose it looks 'cooler' to some people and you can spec them better. Oddly enough VW don't offer a GTi with a diesel engine (I had a 25th anniversary MKIV that had a diesel engine and it was equally as crap as the 1.8T), I suspect because it would make the petrol car obsolete and weaken the brand they charge an outrageous premium for.

Ultimately the premium for the GTi isn't worth the increased costs. Might make sense in the UK for a lower miles user I suppose as you get ass raped on the price of diesel unlike those of us on the mainland.

I'm coming at this from the perspective of a serial golf gti owner having owned several of various generations. I'm just struggling to understand where in the current landscape a 30 grand + petrol powered golf fits in. They just aren't fun enough for the money.

They do, it's called the GTD.

[aka_kerrly]

elementad said:

"all rounder all rounder". Who wants an "all rounder" at £34,000 apart from reps?

Lots of people want a all rounder. A car that can be driven long or short distances in comfort, a car that can be given to the wife to run to town in on Saturday and yet blasted around the Brecon Beacons on Sunday with mountain bikes in the back. A car that doesn't shout I have too much money nor I am a cheapskate, a car that can turn up at Silverstone and be used/abused on track or left in the car park and not look out of place.

As much as people hate them hot hatches do everything that nearly all car buyers want from a single car without compromise it really is that simple!

[BoostMonkey]

aka_kerrly said:

So you need a car that you can use for work, weekend jollies, family/friend activities and you have £34k to spend on a BRAND NEW car so none of this rubbish about buying a 5 year old M3 or 10 year old Porsche you are left with:

Audi S3 £31k
BMW 135 £34k
Ford RS Focus £35£26k new yet ones that are 612months old are £25k - Not bad depreciation- I'm sure the others in this segment can't say the same
Renault Sport Megane £28k with cup pack and seats

Section corrected to be factually correct.

[Bitzer]

Motorrad said:

Bitzer said:

They do, it's called the GTD.

It isn't a GTi though is it? You can't spec it like one, it doesn't really look like one.......so people buy a GTi.

Agreed, but VW market it as a GTI Diesel.

[Dave Hedgehog]

frosted said:

I get 26-30 mpg in London in passat tdi, at night it rises to 38-45 mpg . It all depends on the traffic

i was comparing same route same journey time, like for like conditions as close as you can do, if it gets really bad the R32 hovered around 10mpg ..

[Motorrad]

Bitzer said:

They do, it's called the GTD.

No it isn't a GTi, doesn't look the same, can't be specced the same. I mean the exact same car with the 'GTi look' that people seem to crave but a diesel engine in place of the petrol.

As I mentioned they did this with the 25th Anniversary car which was crap really but then again so was the petrol version.

[Riggers]

Everybody: It's not £34K it's £31K!!

article said:

List price new: £31,030 (including £1770 infotainment pack and £440 for parking sensors front and rear)

Delete those options and it's £28,820....

Also, FWIW, a Cupra R is not identical but for the manual gearbox and more power - it's noticeably less composed over challenging roads and generally not as nice a place to be (Least that's how our old fleet Cupra felt compared with the Golf. Not saying it isn't a perfectly decent proposition, mind...

[toppstuff]

mooseracer said:

Why would VW want to place their products at the same price as Skoda, a brand they own?

Thats not the point.

Of course VAG are correct to price their different brands at different levels. But it would be a mistake to assume that the extra money paid for a different brand is all going toward making a better car. When so many of the VAG cars share technology and components, a lot of the "perceived extra quality" is really down to marketing and a softer finish on some plastics.

The Skoda Octavia VRs example is perfectly worthy.

Given that you can pick up a new VRS for less than 20k, with the same engine and gearbox, I would be really interested in a back to back comparison test to see if the Golf is really worth 50% more money.

Come on PH, how about a comparison test and value for money analysis?

[donna180]

I think the Golf GTI's a decent enough car although getting pricey in 35 edition guise (not sure it's really worth the premium) - think I'd want a long demo of a 328i before writing a cheque though....

[Bitzer]

Motorrad said:

Bitzer said:

They do, it's called the GTD.

No it isn't a GTi, doesn't look the same, can't be specced the same. I mean the exact same car with the 'GTi look' that people seem to crave but a diesel engine in place of the petrol.

As I mentioned they did this with the 25th Anniversary car which was crap really but then again so was the petrol version.

Any MK4 'GTI/D' was crap!

I agree with you

[CDP]

kambites said:

mooseracer said:

CDP said:

Should really be under £20K for the entry model, thirty grand is a joke. The Octavia shares an awful lot more than just engine and transmission with the Golf so I know what I'd pick. Skoda really are occupying the place VW should be in these days.

Why would VW want to place their products at the same price as Skoda, a brand they own?

Quite. As long as people are willing to pay an extra 20% for the "higher quality brand", why would they sell it for less? As long as they can get away with making 90% of the car the same and still maintaining that price gap, they're onto a winner. They aren't a charity.

VW were always a Ford/Fiat rival but with better build quality.

They're not a charity but expect people to make donations by buying the premium editions and strangely they do. Personally I'd pick the Skoda or Audi.

Even stranger is that Golfs seem to be as expensive if not more than A3s at both ends of their ranges.

With regard to the exchange rate we've devalued by about 20%. The prices seem to have gone up a lot faster than that. The MK5 GTI seemed comparable with a base C class on price, now it's an E class.