Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_azkhopg5E
Mazda have a KERS capacitor system coming out this year, instead of complex flywheels it powers a conventional cars electrical requirements saving fuel and stores it in a capacitor instead of charging.
EVs have to be the end game, the Tesla Model X claims 270 miles at 55mph in a SUV body with the largest most expensive battery pack.
Eventually if they can get to 500 miles @ 70mph you are over 7 hours driving (70mph average
) and London to Glasgow, or Switzerland the same day.
If that range includes just one 30 minute break and fast partial recharge, it could have another 100 miles? to spare at each end.
I think in 10 years the idea of needing 7 or 8 hours 500-800miles driving without a break to recharge is not going to bother people the way it does today, commuting 100 miles each way isn't going to tax them either.
Mazda have a KERS capacitor system coming out this year, instead of complex flywheels it powers a conventional cars electrical requirements saving fuel and stores it in a capacitor instead of charging.
EVs have to be the end game, the Tesla Model X claims 270 miles at 55mph in a SUV body with the largest most expensive battery pack.
Eventually if they can get to 500 miles @ 70mph you are over 7 hours driving (70mph average
) and London to Glasgow, or Switzerland the same day.If that range includes just one 30 minute break and fast partial recharge, it could have another 100 miles? to spare at each end.
I think in 10 years the idea of needing 7 or 8 hours 500-800miles driving without a break to recharge is not going to bother people the way it does today, commuting 100 miles each way isn't going to tax them either.
Heres the primary driving factor. Who will buy these cars? They are expensive to build therefore expensive to sell.
Hence the primary that you are initially looking to sell at is those with money. People with money are not going to buy a telsa roadster for a family car or sportscar. Nor are they going to buy a chevvy volt/ampera or tesla saloon.
Why. The fisker will appeal more. It is i believe percieved to be more exclusive or a better badge if you will than tesla. It has a designer owner which celebs and those who have money will be happy about and lastly compared to its rivals it is really really eco. Everything about it screams eco. No fake wood. Minimal plastics and those that are used are easily recyclable i believe.
No leather yada yada. It simply ticks all the boxes that those with money looking for an eco car will tick.
Given the need and had i the money and the choice i would buy the fisker over the tesla or chevy volt. I mean really a chevy??
Hence the primary that you are initially looking to sell at is those with money. People with money are not going to buy a telsa roadster for a family car or sportscar. Nor are they going to buy a chevvy volt/ampera or tesla saloon.
Why. The fisker will appeal more. It is i believe percieved to be more exclusive or a better badge if you will than tesla. It has a designer owner which celebs and those who have money will be happy about and lastly compared to its rivals it is really really eco. Everything about it screams eco. No fake wood. Minimal plastics and those that are used are easily recyclable i believe.
No leather yada yada. It simply ticks all the boxes that those with money looking for an eco car will tick.
Given the need and had i the money and the choice i would buy the fisker over the tesla or chevy volt. I mean really a chevy??
Caulkhead said:
Can someone explain to me in simple terms why it is more efficient to use a petrol engine to charge a very heavy battery and then use that charge to turn the wheels than it is to do away with the batteries and just use the engine please?
Because petrol engines get less efficient as the load on them decreases. An engine is most efficient (about 40%) at WOT and about 90% of peak fueling at peak torque, which in something like this that will do 0-60 in 6 seconds like this would mean the car was doing something like 150mph. The only way to solve that is to reduce the power of the engine until the power it's putting out at peak torque is about what's needed for your typical cruising speed, which leaves you with a very, very slow car. A range extender hybrid can run the engine at peak load (and hence peak efficiency) when the batteries are getting flat, and turn it off entirely when they're charged so you never have to run the engine at inefficient low loads.
Plus gearboxes and differentials are notoriously inefficient things.
A powerful direct-drive petrol engine powered car will struggle to do better than about 15-20% efficiency.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 21st February 12:50
kambites said:
Caulkhead said:
Can someone explain to me in simple terms why it is more efficient to use a petrol engine to charge a very heavy battery and then use that charge to turn the wheels than it is to do away with the batteries and just use the engine please?
Because petrol engines get less efficient as the load on them decreases. An engine is most efficient at WOT and about 90% of peak fueling at peak torque, which in something like this that will do 0-60 in 6 seconds like this would mean the car was ding something like 150mph. The only way to solve that is to reduce the power of the engine until the power it's putting out at peak torque is about what's needed for your typical cruising speed, which leaves you with a very, very slow car. A range extender hybrid can run the engine at peak load (and hence peak efficiency) when the batteries are getting flat, and turn it off entirely when they're charged so you never have to run the engine at inefficient low loads.
Plus gearboxes and differentials are notoriously inefficient things.
I struggle to see why this is any more efficient than the Audi overall when one considers its' market sector. Am I missing something?
Caulkhead said:
I struggle to see why this is any more efficient than the Audi overall when one considers its' market sector. Am I missing something?
Two reasons that I can think of:1) Most car journeys in the UK are short enough for these cars to do 100% on electrical power which can be pulled from the grid, giving a much greater selection of possible energy sources and zero emissions at point of use.
2) The Audi is a diesel - diesel contains significantly more energy per unit volume than petrol and costs more.
I think (1) is the really key thing, though, which is why I think this makes a lot less sense than cars like the Ampera which falls into a market sector where cars are used more for short journeys.
ETA: But also bear in mind that this particular implementation is a long way from ideal because it's using an off-the-shelf engine. An engine designed specifically for this purpose (ie one only capable of running at one power output) could potentially be much simpler and probably much more efficient.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 21st February 13:10
tercelgold said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_azkhopg5E
Mazda have a KERS capacitor system coming out this year, instead of complex flywheels it powers a conventional cars electrical requirements saving fuel and stores it in a capacitor instead of charging.
My 1976 Unimog has a device that stores electrical power, its called a batteryMazda have a KERS capacitor system coming out this year, instead of complex flywheels it powers a conventional cars electrical requirements saving fuel and stores it in a capacitor instead of charging.
And BMW have been switching off the alternator for years on acceleration
Caulkhead said:
Can someone explain to me in simple terms why it is more efficient to use a petrol engine to charge a very heavy battery and then use that charge to turn the wheels than it is to do away with the batteries and just use the engine please?
It isn'tUnless every single time you get into your car your drive it 300 miles at motorway speed then you can charge up the battery pack from the mains while you are at home. This means for short journeys you can use battery power only, for the monthly visit to grannies 300 miles away you use petrol
kambites said:
1) Most car journeys in the UK are short enough for these cars to do 100% on electrical power which can be pulled from the grid, giving a much greater selection of possible energy sources and zero emissions at point of use.
Assuming we ever spend enough money to provide the necessary infrastructure for charging points to be available at either end of most UK car journeys, didn't I read that using the current generation methods, charging your car from the grid still equates to around 115g of CO2 per KM driven? So really for any benefit we really need to build a million charging points and replace all our coal-fired power staions with something that produces significantly less CO2.kambites said:
2) The Audi is a diesel - diesel contains significantly more energy per unit volume than petrol and costs more.
Especially when not hauling around a tonne of lithium-ion everywhere you go.kambites said:
I think (1) is the really key thing, though, which is why I think this makes a lot less sense than cars like the Ampera which falls into a market sector where cars are used more for short journeys.
I can see the point of this kind of range extender, but it makes no sense in this sector other than as a green fashion accessory for the rich, something which the choice of interior materials hints pretty strongly at too.What we need is a Fiat Panda with that new eco-air twin cylinder turbo extending the range on a 5kwh battery rather than a Porsche Panamera competitor.
thinfourth2 said:
Caulkhead said:
Can someone explain to me in simple terms why it is more efficient to use a petrol engine to charge a very heavy battery and then use that charge to turn the wheels than it is to do away with the batteries and just use the engine please?
It isn'tUnless every single time you get into your car your drive it 300 miles at motorway speed then you can charge up the battery pack from the mains while you are at home. This means for short journeys you can use battery power only, for the monthly visit to grannies 300 miles away you use petrol
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