Another 3 pence in august what gives?
Discussion
Nick M said:
Clearly this thread is throwing up a lot of opinions based on peoples' perception of the 'facts', but it's interesting to see how misplaced some of those perceptions are when real actual facts are shown.
The net result seems to be that too many people think it's somebody else's fault or somebody else's problem, and while people continue to play the blame game no real progress is going to be made in turning the UK around.
The biggest challenge to be overcome, it seems to me, is how to deal with the overwhelming sense of resentment - resentment at the bankers, resentment at the government, resentment at employers for not giving out pay increases, etc. Some of that may be justified, some of it may not, but while that feeling remains it's fundamentally unhealthy for the economy. And frankly, it's not helped by messages such as "we're in this together" message if we're patently not.
Until there's a wholesale shift away from this resentment and an acceptance that nobody is going to fix things for us then sadly I think we're in for a period of stagnation.
Sort of like the 70's all over again, without the bell-bottom trousers...
Very well put.The net result seems to be that too many people think it's somebody else's fault or somebody else's problem, and while people continue to play the blame game no real progress is going to be made in turning the UK around.
The biggest challenge to be overcome, it seems to me, is how to deal with the overwhelming sense of resentment - resentment at the bankers, resentment at the government, resentment at employers for not giving out pay increases, etc. Some of that may be justified, some of it may not, but while that feeling remains it's fundamentally unhealthy for the economy. And frankly, it's not helped by messages such as "we're in this together" message if we're patently not.
Until there's a wholesale shift away from this resentment and an acceptance that nobody is going to fix things for us then sadly I think we're in for a period of stagnation.
Sort of like the 70's all over again, without the bell-bottom trousers...
The "it's unfair" attitude gets you nowhere. It just hangs around your neck and stops you progressing completely.
It seems many moan and moan but don't do anything about it.
We live in a free(ish) country, we are free to make our own luck. Yes there are taxes but do the Swedish (with massive taxation) super rich all moan and get nowhere? No, they get on with it.
Roll with the punches, don't blame the rich/the poor/immigrants/whoever and be glad you live in a country that offers the chance to make good money but also some support if it all goes wrong.
I hate the bank situation, mad public sector senior level salaries, dodgy PPP schemes, etc but I don't blame them for everything and I can't do anything about them- so why bleat and moan?
djdestiny said:
How long is it until it I'll be cheap to go to France on the ferry and get a full tank rather than just filling up here?
Not for a while yet...http://www.prix-carburants.economie.gouv.fr/index....
martin84 said:
PugUgly said:
if you were rich you wouldn't want to give half of everything you earn to the government to spend on services that you by and large don't use.
Its not half of what they earn. Its half of what they earn over £150,000. How many people in this country earn a 6 figure salary? Extremely few. Not enough to win an election, put it that way. If rich people dont like their taxes funding services which they might not use then they should go abroad. 'I dont use the services so why should I pay?' is not a valid argument.By the way, if I was rich I wouldn't care less about anything. Do you think I'd even waste my time finding out where my taxes went?
"I don't use the services and so I shouldn't pay" isn't a valid argument not to pay tax, but it is a valid feeling, and if they feel strongly enough then they will move abroad and their skills and spending power will be lost to the UK economy, which isn't helpful at all.
I think in the main most people who are rich (or otherwise) do care about where their taxes go, even if they don't mind paying them. Seeing the difference between your net and gross pay on your pay-slip is quite disheartening, so it would be nice to see it spent on something you agree with!
PlugUgly said:
"I don't use the services and so I shouldn't pay" isn't a valid argument not to pay tax, but it is a valid feeling, and if they feel strongly enough then they will move abroad and their skills and spending power will be lost to the UK economy, which isn't helpful at all.
This does seem to be the basis of the way people think about taxes in countries such as the US, namely "leave the money with me and I'll spend it on the services I need", such as healthcare, etc. Sadly it doesn't really work in practice - people are having to use the money to service debt or cover rising living costs, rather than spending it in the wider economy. The US is probably one of the most fundamentally under-taxed countries going in terms of effective tax rates for both individuals and companies. Those that can, and arguably should, pay more are probably enjoying a lower effective tax rate than those in the middle income brackets who maybe don't have the option of utilising tax avoidance schemes.That said, there is also a belief (rightly I suspect...) that any increase in tax revenues would just be swallowed up by the government (federal and state, and anyone else who takes a cut) without realising any material benefits to the economy as a whole - it would be a tiny drop in a massive ocean.
PlugUgly said:
I think in the main most people who are rich (or otherwise) do care about where their taxes go, even if they don't mind paying them. Seeing the difference between your net and gross pay on your pay-slip is quite disheartening, so it would be nice to see it spent on something you agree with!
Slight tangent, but there was some research done years ago that sought to find out the break-even point where tax revenue was maximised relative to the amount of energy people were prepared to spend in actively avoiding paying tax. In other words, what is the maximum effective income tax rate people are OK with, before they start to invest more time and energy in avoiding tax.From memory, I think the net effective rate was around 36%.
Now, this excluded social security, which at the time was relatively low, and wasn't considered the additional 'tax' that it is now. And more importantly this piece of research was done before the burden of 'stealth taxes' and consumption taxes, such as fuel duty, was really ramped up.
Anyway, the point I was making in relation to your comment was that there is a point (and it will vary from person to person) where they clearly *do* mind the amount of tax they're paying, and you appear to have reached it. The difference is, it's usually those with more money who have more options in terms of how to minimise their tax exposure.
jshell said:
Marf said:
So the basic state pension, which EVERYONE gets regardless of contributions, that's not a benefit?
Is this true? As an expat I get told that if I don't keep up my UK NI contributions I won't get my full pension at retirement...Let me know as it'll save me some cash!
While the level of pension isn't linked to the amount of your contributions, it is linked to the period over which you contributed.
So, if you stop paying NIC for a number of years then you could end up with a reduced benefit. Without looking it up I think, in order to qualify for the full pension, you need to have contributed NIC for 40 years.
The lower earnings limit is also designed to allow people who earn below that amount to still get a pension, even though they might not actually have paid any NIC - if they were earning income they qualify in terms of the years when their earnings were below the lower earnings limit.
Not sure what the situation is with people getting benefits and qualifying for a pension though - never had cause to look that up.
So, your decision to keep NIC topped up while overseas is really based on whether you think the state pension will be worth anything when you come to claim it. But for the sake of a few quid a week it's probably worth it.
One comment to add, depending on where you are, if it's a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK then your years of social security contributions in the other country would count towards your UK pension entitlement.
Nick M said:
jshell said:
Marf said:
So the basic state pension, which EVERYONE gets regardless of contributions, that's not a benefit?
Is this true? As an expat I get told that if I don't keep up my UK NI contributions I won't get my full pension at retirement...Let me know as it'll save me some cash!
While the level of pension isn't linked to the amount of your contributions, it is linked to the period over which you contributed.
So, if you stop paying NIC for a number of years then you could end up with a reduced benefit. Without looking it up I think, in order to qualify for the full pension, you need to have contributed NIC for 40 years.
The lower earnings limit is also designed to allow people who earn below that amount to still get a pension, even though they might not actually have paid any NIC - if they were earning income they qualify in terms of the years when their earnings were below the lower earnings limit.
Not sure what the situation is with people getting benefits and qualifying for a pension though - never had cause to look that up.
So, your decision to keep NIC topped up while overseas is really based on whether you think the state pension will be worth anything when you come to claim it. But for the sake of a few quid a week it's probably worth it.
One comment to add, depending on where you are, if it's a country with a reciprocal agreement with the UK then your years of social security contributions in the other country would count towards your UK pension entitlement.
If cannabis farmers were forced to run them as alegal business, they would be driven out of business.
Maybe we should tax mobile phone and broadband use so people interact rather than starting fights on Facebook - an increasingly common feature in criminal cases these days.
Bring back the 70's....
Maybe we should tax mobile phone and broadband use so people interact rather than starting fights on Facebook - an increasingly common feature in criminal cases these days.
Bring back the 70's....
LuS1fer said:
Maybe we should tax ....
Actually, I think the point is we should *stop* finding new things to tax and look for ways to reduce expenditure more effectively, by getting rid of wastage in the civil service, reducing genuinely excessive benefits, cutting red tape in organisations like the NHS, by letting the police do police work rather than tying them up with performance based targets, etc., etc.Oddly, I think the opposite is true for companies - rather than the seemingly obsessive focus on cutting costs in order to achieve 'growth' and maximise profits, there should be a change in focus to get them to find ways to increase their revenues since, long term, that should generate additional taxation with less negative effects compared to cost cutting.
LuS1fer said:
Bring back the 70's....
Errr, no. Very no !! Bell bottom trousers and platform soles ?!! Not to mention abominations such as the Austin Maxi, Morris Marina and the Princess !!!Flawless Victory said:
Willy Nilly said:
Flawless Victory said:
Willy Nilly said:
Only skimmed the thread.
To keep it on topic, I bought some unleaded on Sunday. £142.9. My car holds 55 litres, if I put 50 litres in it, some quick calculations showed that the tax on that 50 litres would equate to a touch over 20% of my basic weekly wage AFTER I have paid income tax and NI.
I've tried writing to my MP, I've tried phoning to make an appointment to see him but just get fobbed off. Yes, we have to pay tax, but I'm about ready to start shooting people.
Maybe you should cut out the foreign holidays first.To keep it on topic, I bought some unleaded on Sunday. £142.9. My car holds 55 litres, if I put 50 litres in it, some quick calculations showed that the tax on that 50 litres would equate to a touch over 20% of my basic weekly wage AFTER I have paid income tax and NI.
I've tried writing to my MP, I've tried phoning to make an appointment to see him but just get fobbed off. Yes, we have to pay tax, but I'm about ready to start shooting people.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thank you for paying more tax than you need to.
I have a question?
Would it not be slightly beneficial for the government to cut down on how much foreign aid is paid out every year? From what 10 minutes of googling has just found it appears to be a massive chunk of money every year that could be better spent not screwing over the tax payer even more in here?
No idea on the ins and outs of that one, but I can't really see how looking after you own country first and re-evaluating what you can give would be a bad idea?
Would it not be slightly beneficial for the government to cut down on how much foreign aid is paid out every year? From what 10 minutes of googling has just found it appears to be a massive chunk of money every year that could be better spent not screwing over the tax payer even more in here?
No idea on the ins and outs of that one, but I can't really see how looking after you own country first and re-evaluating what you can give would be a bad idea?
DanDC5 said:
I have a question?
Would it not be slightly beneficial for the government to cut down on how much foreign aid is paid out every year? From what 10 minutes of googling has just found it appears to be a massive chunk of money every year that could be better spent not screwing over the tax payer even more in here?
No idea on the ins and outs of that one, but I can't really see how looking after you own country first and re-evaluating what you can give would be a bad idea?
Get out of here with your common sense.Would it not be slightly beneficial for the government to cut down on how much foreign aid is paid out every year? From what 10 minutes of googling has just found it appears to be a massive chunk of money every year that could be better spent not screwing over the tax payer even more in here?
No idea on the ins and outs of that one, but I can't really see how looking after you own country first and re-evaluating what you can give would be a bad idea?
Someone will be along shortly to call you a racist.
WE SHOULD NOT GIVE A PENNY IN AID WHILE WE'RE IN DEBT.
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