RE: PH Blog: why Lotus-Mansory makes sense
Discussion
I understand the concept of preserving heritage and that is important, however the primary prinicpal of any 'car' company must be to sell cars and make a profit, if the Mansory tie up helps quality and style and helps sell 'cars' then it must be a good thing.
Every car company must evolve and change to keep up with the markets it is in or is trying to occupy.
AG
Every car company must evolve and change to keep up with the markets it is in or is trying to occupy.
AG
sunsurfer said:
toppstuff said:
I will try and explain why I am concerned about this development..
I guess I am an ideal potential buyer. Young enough to want a car like an Evora and maybe even able to afford one ! I am tuned into the narrative of established brands like Porsche, BMW etc and understand why people buy them.
As for Lotus, what does the brand mean to me?
Well, for me it represents interesting, technologically advanced sports cars that are pure and connected to the road. The Lotus brand is about simplicity - all of their best cars are simple, easy to understand and easy to appreciate.
The Lotus brand is also about motorsport. Lotus is about winning GP cars, JPS, Senna and De Angelis, Ronnie Petersen etc... Only the most stupid, ill-educated petrol head would fail to understand the amazing motorsport heritage of Lotus. And Lotus won GP's because they innovated in their car design.
Now this is where I think Lotus is going wrong, maybe taking the wrong direction.
Ferrari are an amazingly successful car company. They make product everyone wants. The Ferrari brand and its motorsport heritage are inseparable. You can still sense the spirit of Enzo Ferrari, you sense that if he were alive and a young man today he would totally "get" a car like the 430 Scuderia for example. The lineage is clear to see and easy to understand. This is why Ferrari is a successful brand.
Now lets look at Lotus.
Many people say that Lotus cannot survive by selling cars to the old bearded Lotus lovers of old. This is nonsense.
The main worry for me is that Lotus seems to be ignoring its heritage. Lotus seems to be trying to reach out to new customers who know nothing of the Lotus history, and they are doing this deliberately. This makes no sense - they may as well create a new car company with a new name, if they are ignoring the legacy and the bloodline of the past.
Lotus somehow needs to create an image that ties its past with its future. They are not doing a good job of this. The Mansory tie up is proof that in terms of marketing, the owners just don't understand what they have.
Lotus should, IMO,
1. Reference the past. Reference the fact that Lotus stands for chassis engineering that changed the world of motorsport and supplied the worlds finest GP drivers.
2. Show that just as in the past Lotus innovated and succeeded, it is still doing it now. Make it clear that a Lotus provides more "feel" for the road you are driving than other cars ( especially German ones ! ). Exploit the fact that as Porsche moves toward electronic, lifeless steering, a Lotus gives you a connection to the road. A connection that goes all the way back to Senna himself.
3. Lotus is not about bling. Lotus is about engineering. Lotus is about being clever. Lotus is about being the "thinking mans' Sports car. The fashion victim buying a car because of the bling and the bodykit is never going to be loyal to the Lotus brand, because they do not understand the brand anyway. Lotus should be pitching to a smarter customer than that.
Am I living in the past? No way. But Lotus should look to the future by understanding what already makes it special.
All this Mansory nonsense means nothing. It does not seem to fit at all to the Lotus brand values.
It is sad to see that Lotus management really do not understand their own company. They do not understand it at all.
We should be seeing clever marketing, referencing the clever , alternative thinking of Lotus cars. About feeling the road. About efficiency. About "feel" rather than bling. About Senna, not Swiss Beatz...
It is tragic that they don't see this...
Well discussed toppstuff and makes a lot of sense. I think the Mansory tie up is mostly positive but I agree with you that they need to market more with Lotus classic image.I guess I am an ideal potential buyer. Young enough to want a car like an Evora and maybe even able to afford one ! I am tuned into the narrative of established brands like Porsche, BMW etc and understand why people buy them.
As for Lotus, what does the brand mean to me?
Well, for me it represents interesting, technologically advanced sports cars that are pure and connected to the road. The Lotus brand is about simplicity - all of their best cars are simple, easy to understand and easy to appreciate.
The Lotus brand is also about motorsport. Lotus is about winning GP cars, JPS, Senna and De Angelis, Ronnie Petersen etc... Only the most stupid, ill-educated petrol head would fail to understand the amazing motorsport heritage of Lotus. And Lotus won GP's because they innovated in their car design.
Now this is where I think Lotus is going wrong, maybe taking the wrong direction.
Ferrari are an amazingly successful car company. They make product everyone wants. The Ferrari brand and its motorsport heritage are inseparable. You can still sense the spirit of Enzo Ferrari, you sense that if he were alive and a young man today he would totally "get" a car like the 430 Scuderia for example. The lineage is clear to see and easy to understand. This is why Ferrari is a successful brand.
Now lets look at Lotus.
Many people say that Lotus cannot survive by selling cars to the old bearded Lotus lovers of old. This is nonsense.
The main worry for me is that Lotus seems to be ignoring its heritage. Lotus seems to be trying to reach out to new customers who know nothing of the Lotus history, and they are doing this deliberately. This makes no sense - they may as well create a new car company with a new name, if they are ignoring the legacy and the bloodline of the past.
Lotus somehow needs to create an image that ties its past with its future. They are not doing a good job of this. The Mansory tie up is proof that in terms of marketing, the owners just don't understand what they have.
Lotus should, IMO,
1. Reference the past. Reference the fact that Lotus stands for chassis engineering that changed the world of motorsport and supplied the worlds finest GP drivers.
2. Show that just as in the past Lotus innovated and succeeded, it is still doing it now. Make it clear that a Lotus provides more "feel" for the road you are driving than other cars ( especially German ones ! ). Exploit the fact that as Porsche moves toward electronic, lifeless steering, a Lotus gives you a connection to the road. A connection that goes all the way back to Senna himself.
3. Lotus is not about bling. Lotus is about engineering. Lotus is about being clever. Lotus is about being the "thinking mans' Sports car. The fashion victim buying a car because of the bling and the bodykit is never going to be loyal to the Lotus brand, because they do not understand the brand anyway. Lotus should be pitching to a smarter customer than that.
Am I living in the past? No way. But Lotus should look to the future by understanding what already makes it special.
All this Mansory nonsense means nothing. It does not seem to fit at all to the Lotus brand values.
It is sad to see that Lotus management really do not understand their own company. They do not understand it at all.
We should be seeing clever marketing, referencing the clever , alternative thinking of Lotus cars. About feeling the road. About efficiency. About "feel" rather than bling. About Senna, not Swiss Beatz...
It is tragic that they don't see this...
Edited by toppstuff on Tuesday 27th March 12:26
Fundamentally Lotus is suffering from lack of image and that is due to under investment, few product launches and poor or little marketing.
Part of the problem is Lotus is no longer a 'lightweight sports car' full of neat technical touches and superior engineering. As posted above, an Evora is £70k for the optioned ones! IMO anyone would be crazy buying a £70k lotus when you can get just about anything you wanted for £70k. 911GT3RS? Probably. Any Ferrari 360 you could wish for I'm sure. Hundred's of Aston Martins no doubt as well as any number of maserati and Lamborghini offerings, not to mention M3's, M5's etc along with a Caterham for the weekend. They're just not exciting or desirable anymore
RichTBiscuit said:
This is an interesting article with some good points.
However, why dont lotus build a brand by actually achieving something? After all, the reason why Ferrari and Porsche are famous has much to do with Motorsport heritage.
Why dont they Carry on with the F1, perhaps even rallying and build a reputation based upon winning and producing good cars.
Who has ever built a reputable credible brand and need to tie in lame Rap artists and crap 'styling houses'?
They are involved in motorsport, and if they get bought out by Genii they'll be even more involved, but these things cost money and require time and success - would you like to see them limping around like HRT? Did Jaguar or Audi achieve much in terms of intangible heritage with their investment in Le Mans?However, why dont lotus build a brand by actually achieving something? After all, the reason why Ferrari and Porsche are famous has much to do with Motorsport heritage.
Why dont they Carry on with the F1, perhaps even rallying and build a reputation based upon winning and producing good cars.
Who has ever built a reputable credible brand and need to tie in lame Rap artists and crap 'styling houses'?
RichTBiscuit said:
This is an interesting article with some good points.
However, why dont lotus build a brand by actually achieving something? After all, the reason why Ferrari and Porsche are famous has much to do with Motorsport heritage.
Why dont they Carry on with the F1, perhaps even rallying and build a reputation based upon winning and producing good cars.
Who has ever built a reputable credible brand and needed to tie in lame Rap artists and crap 'styling houses'?
But the rappers are cheaper than motorsport - Lotus don't have £200-£300m to sink into winning top-flight motorsport. The only series that get accolades these days are Le Mans and F1 and beating Audi or Red Bull/Ferrari/McLaren is a big budget ask.However, why dont lotus build a brand by actually achieving something? After all, the reason why Ferrari and Porsche are famous has much to do with Motorsport heritage.
Why dont they Carry on with the F1, perhaps even rallying and build a reputation based upon winning and producing good cars.
Who has ever built a reputable credible brand and needed to tie in lame Rap artists and crap 'styling houses'?
I think the ideas that Danny Bahar has had are good in principle, its just the execution that is off.
For example, I've never heard of Swizz Beatz and I probably never will again. Mansory are synonymous with poor taste. There are a million styling houses and quality control consultants out there who could (and do) do a better job of 'improving' cars than either of these.
I can understand that Lotus want to make their cars feel more 'premium' but to do that they need to focus on quality, not bling. So the Chinese have a slight propensity towards excessive overstyling. They've got new money, that is what happens. It'll wear off... fashions change. The trick is not to embrace any and all styling fads that come and go (as it seems Mansory does) but to actually design cars with taste, quality and a little bit of elegance...
...And make them go on the road and round a track like a scalded cat!
For example, I've never heard of Swizz Beatz and I probably never will again. Mansory are synonymous with poor taste. There are a million styling houses and quality control consultants out there who could (and do) do a better job of 'improving' cars than either of these.
I can understand that Lotus want to make their cars feel more 'premium' but to do that they need to focus on quality, not bling. So the Chinese have a slight propensity towards excessive overstyling. They've got new money, that is what happens. It'll wear off... fashions change. The trick is not to embrace any and all styling fads that come and go (as it seems Mansory does) but to actually design cars with taste, quality and a little bit of elegance...
...And make them go on the road and round a track like a scalded cat!
MissChief said:
IMO anyone would be crazy buying a £70k lotus when you can get just about anything you wanted for £70k. 911GT3RS? Probably. Any Ferrari 360 you could wish for I'm sure. Hundred's of Aston Martins no doubt as well as any number of maserati and Lamborghini offerings, not to mention M3's, M5's etc along with a Caterham for the weekend. They're just not exciting or desirable anymore
You're comparing new with used prices. If you do that you need to look at £30k-ish car alternatives to the Evora.The Swizz Beatz thing was just a fluff campaign to attract attention, he no more 'designed' anything than Victoria Beckham did at JLR or Will.I.Am.A.Prick did for Intel or anyone else. Their names are simply 'bought' to tag onto the car (although I still maintain Swizz Beatz would be unknown to 90% of Lotus' target audience)
Mansory is different tho - they're purveyors of tacky s
te to people with more money than sense. Yes, there's a market for tacky ste - diamond encrusting and gold plating aren't exclusive to them by any means - but I have NO idea what that does to help a long-established maker of quick, light, great-handling cars!?!?
It's like putting Bernard Manning onto posters for FUBU clothing - his image offers nothing to the intended buyers of the goods and those who recognise him are simply unlikely to appreciate what he's selling.
Mansory is different tho - they're purveyors of tacky s
te to people with more money than sense. Yes, there's a market for tacky ste - diamond encrusting and gold plating aren't exclusive to them by any means - but I have NO idea what that does to help a long-established maker of quick, light, great-handling cars!?!?It's like putting Bernard Manning onto posters for FUBU clothing - his image offers nothing to the intended buyers of the goods and those who recognise him are simply unlikely to appreciate what he's selling.
andy_s said:
MissChief said:
IMO anyone would be crazy buying a £70k lotus when you can get just about anything you wanted for £70k. 911GT3RS? Probably. Any Ferrari 360 you could wish for I'm sure. Hundred's of Aston Martins no doubt as well as any number of maserati and Lamborghini offerings, not to mention M3's, M5's etc along with a Caterham for the weekend. They're just not exciting or desirable anymore
You're comparing new with used prices. If you do that you need to look at £30k-ish car alternatives to the Evora.I agree with Garlick.
This tie-up with Mansory seems to solve a lot of the problems associated with the Evora. Think about it like this:
-Interior quality is not up to the standard of rivals from Porsche. Solution? Give it to Mansory to sort out.
-£60k+ seems a lot to spend on a car with glass-fibre bodywork. Solution? Give it to Mansory to sort out. And you know what replacing glassfibre with carbon-fibre amounts to? That's right - adding lightness.
-Lotus lacks the funds to improve these areas of the car in-house, and will concentrate on the core engineering often at the expense of trim. Solution? Give it to Mansory to sort out (at the cost of a mere business arrangement rather than Lotus having to buy-in Mansory's work).
-Lotus doesn't have a European dealer network with enough reach to rival Ferrari et al. Solution? Mansory, while not having access to dealerships per se, has a comprehensive network within easy reach of the deep of pocket wherever in the world they may be. Combine Lotus main dealers and concessionnaires with Mansory outlets and you have a very large global spread.
-Lotus isn't marketed at the new global super-rich. Solution? Mansory is.
-The Evora is always accused of being overpriced. Solution? People with more money than sense have been hurling cash at Mansory for years. A comparatively tasteful Lotus trimmed to a high standard makes more sense than a Porsche Cayenne with scissor-doors and doorhandles made of diamonds or something. It'd probably also be cheaper than most of their output, and capable of selling in bigger numbers.
So, what Lotus would effectively get would be the high quality associated with the prices it's charging without actually having to pay for the work itself. It'd get its car in all the right places, and as the basis for the car is made on the same Hethel production line as everything else, Hethel can concentrate on things like Exige Roadsters, Evora GTEs and the forthcoming new Esprit.
It's a win-win situation. I can't help but think that part of the problem is that for years they've been selling to the wrong market. Yes, they can (and will - hence aforementioned Exige) keep churning out the small, ballistically fast sports cars we know and love, but the big money is in the BRIC economies now. They have different tastes, they are unused to the brand-culture that sullies Lotus in the UK, and there's a strong market for cars like that.
But oddly enough, the buying process will be exactly the same as it was during the days of Chapman. A black and gold car with Raikkonen or Grosjean at the wheel (or a Jetalliance Evora GTE racer, or a Lotus-Honda IndyCar, or the Lotus-Lola LMP1) blasts round a track, hopefully finishing on the podium. The new market, which loves F1 (hence all those new Grands Prix in the middle and far East, plus a newly-wealthy Brazil who loved F1 with a mad fervour anyway - and forget all the empty grandstand seats - the people with the money to bankroll these new cars will be in the airconditioned corporate boxes), will go 'I want one of those', and buy it.
Chapman had a similar approach. He bought-in from companies in order to take on bespoke engineering from the establishment. Consider Cosworth engineering - without them Lotus would just have Ford engines, but Chapman effectively outsourced development. Classic Lotii were full of parts-bin bits, even suspension systems were often adapted from bits of ordinary production cars. Chapman got other firms to do some of his hard work for him, so he could concentrate on the important stuff.
And what happened when he wanted to move upmarket with some expensive cars in the Porsche bracket?
Well, he wanted a big GT with a plush interior. So he outsourced the work to ItalDesign:
What's this? Fake wood? Aircon? Optional automatic gearbox? Doesn't sound very Lotus to me.
No, it didn't, but who was the man behind it? Colin Chapman.
This whole situation is reminding me of the Seventies. Aston Martin and Maserati were staring death in the face back then, and dug their way out of trouble by selling the Lagonda and the Quattroporte III. Both those cars put their respective companies back in the black. How? By selling in large numbers to the newly-wealthy Middle East.
And both of those cars were hefty, deeply luxurious barges which upset purists all over the place. But the point is, without them you wouldn't have any post-'76 Astons or Maseratis.
This tie-up with Mansory seems to solve a lot of the problems associated with the Evora. Think about it like this:
-Interior quality is not up to the standard of rivals from Porsche. Solution? Give it to Mansory to sort out.
-£60k+ seems a lot to spend on a car with glass-fibre bodywork. Solution? Give it to Mansory to sort out. And you know what replacing glassfibre with carbon-fibre amounts to? That's right - adding lightness.
-Lotus lacks the funds to improve these areas of the car in-house, and will concentrate on the core engineering often at the expense of trim. Solution? Give it to Mansory to sort out (at the cost of a mere business arrangement rather than Lotus having to buy-in Mansory's work).
-Lotus doesn't have a European dealer network with enough reach to rival Ferrari et al. Solution? Mansory, while not having access to dealerships per se, has a comprehensive network within easy reach of the deep of pocket wherever in the world they may be. Combine Lotus main dealers and concessionnaires with Mansory outlets and you have a very large global spread.
-Lotus isn't marketed at the new global super-rich. Solution? Mansory is.
-The Evora is always accused of being overpriced. Solution? People with more money than sense have been hurling cash at Mansory for years. A comparatively tasteful Lotus trimmed to a high standard makes more sense than a Porsche Cayenne with scissor-doors and doorhandles made of diamonds or something. It'd probably also be cheaper than most of their output, and capable of selling in bigger numbers.
So, what Lotus would effectively get would be the high quality associated with the prices it's charging without actually having to pay for the work itself. It'd get its car in all the right places, and as the basis for the car is made on the same Hethel production line as everything else, Hethel can concentrate on things like Exige Roadsters, Evora GTEs and the forthcoming new Esprit.
It's a win-win situation. I can't help but think that part of the problem is that for years they've been selling to the wrong market. Yes, they can (and will - hence aforementioned Exige) keep churning out the small, ballistically fast sports cars we know and love, but the big money is in the BRIC economies now. They have different tastes, they are unused to the brand-culture that sullies Lotus in the UK, and there's a strong market for cars like that.
But oddly enough, the buying process will be exactly the same as it was during the days of Chapman. A black and gold car with Raikkonen or Grosjean at the wheel (or a Jetalliance Evora GTE racer, or a Lotus-Honda IndyCar, or the Lotus-Lola LMP1) blasts round a track, hopefully finishing on the podium. The new market, which loves F1 (hence all those new Grands Prix in the middle and far East, plus a newly-wealthy Brazil who loved F1 with a mad fervour anyway - and forget all the empty grandstand seats - the people with the money to bankroll these new cars will be in the airconditioned corporate boxes), will go 'I want one of those', and buy it.
Chapman had a similar approach. He bought-in from companies in order to take on bespoke engineering from the establishment. Consider Cosworth engineering - without them Lotus would just have Ford engines, but Chapman effectively outsourced development. Classic Lotii were full of parts-bin bits, even suspension systems were often adapted from bits of ordinary production cars. Chapman got other firms to do some of his hard work for him, so he could concentrate on the important stuff.
And what happened when he wanted to move upmarket with some expensive cars in the Porsche bracket?
Well, he wanted a big GT with a plush interior. So he outsourced the work to ItalDesign:
What's this? Fake wood? Aircon? Optional automatic gearbox? Doesn't sound very Lotus to me.
No, it didn't, but who was the man behind it? Colin Chapman.
This whole situation is reminding me of the Seventies. Aston Martin and Maserati were staring death in the face back then, and dug their way out of trouble by selling the Lagonda and the Quattroporte III. Both those cars put their respective companies back in the black. How? By selling in large numbers to the newly-wealthy Middle East.
And both of those cars were hefty, deeply luxurious barges which upset purists all over the place. But the point is, without them you wouldn't have any post-'76 Astons or Maseratis.
Edited by Twincam16 on Tuesday 27th March 14:05
mansory appeals to a niche market. ok this market has money, but often more than questionable taste.
living as i do in dubai, i know this will increase lotus sales here in the emirates as the standard evora has little kerb appeal for those who buy a car purely for to be seen driving it.
on one hand, this is no bad thing. after all the dubai porsche showroom sold 280+ cars in one month last year, breaking all dealer records and likely more than the number lotus sold in the UK all year.
on the other, i don't think taking a niche brand into more diverse niches is a sound business plan. lotus needs to make a car that appeals to a broader population and is priced accordingly.
living as i do in dubai, i know this will increase lotus sales here in the emirates as the standard evora has little kerb appeal for those who buy a car purely for to be seen driving it.
on one hand, this is no bad thing. after all the dubai porsche showroom sold 280+ cars in one month last year, breaking all dealer records and likely more than the number lotus sold in the UK all year.
on the other, i don't think taking a niche brand into more diverse niches is a sound business plan. lotus needs to make a car that appeals to a broader population and is priced accordingly.
paranoid airbag said:
kambites said:
So basically your theory is that they're not using them as a design house, but as a contracted in quality control unit?
frankly, what lotus needs. I just can't believe that it's impossible to make a minimalist car that's screwed together properly. It doesn't need carbon and aluminium everywhere, just to feel finished and not smelling of glue.I must admit I've never noticed the smell of glue in a modern Lotus, and I've been in quite a lot of them?
shirt said:
mansory appeals to a niche market. ok this market has money, but often more than questionable taste.
living as i do in dubai, i know this will increase lotus sales here in the emirates as the standard evora has little kerb appeal for those who buy a car purely for to be seen driving it.
on one hand, this is no bad thing. after all the dubai porsche showroom sold 280+ cars in one month last year, breaking all dealer records and likely more than the number lotus sold in the UK all year.
on the other, i don't think taking a niche brand into more diverse niches is a sound business plan. lotus needs to make a car that appeals to a broader population and is priced accordingly.
I agree, but that broader population is skint at the moment. You know the 'squeezed middle' is even more squeezed than usual when Vauxhall and Peugeot are in trouble. I don't even think I've seen that many recent Mazda MX-5s, even though they're the bestselling car in their class. It's clear to me that if you want to sell a car these days, it has to be either very cheap (ie in the Hyundai/Kia bracket - so Lotus would have to be selling Elises for £16k all-in, and they'd have to have tax-friendly engines at that level too), or moderately-to-very expensive, competing with Porsche and top-end BMW all the way up to Ferrari and Lamborghini.living as i do in dubai, i know this will increase lotus sales here in the emirates as the standard evora has little kerb appeal for those who buy a car purely for to be seen driving it.
on one hand, this is no bad thing. after all the dubai porsche showroom sold 280+ cars in one month last year, breaking all dealer records and likely more than the number lotus sold in the UK all year.
on the other, i don't think taking a niche brand into more diverse niches is a sound business plan. lotus needs to make a car that appeals to a broader population and is priced accordingly.
In the long term, our finances will recover and people will start buying sporty second cars again. However, right now, if you're a niche producer with relatively high labour costs wanting to stay alive in difficult times, there's only one way to do this and that's to sell to the new global super (and even not-so-super) rich.
well it's not good, that's for sure. But while they may fk-up the products after Lotus has made them, more of a worry right now is what Proton wants to do and that they at least make a decent car to start with . If Mansory then wrecks it to sell a tiny number to people with no taste, I can live with that.
k-up the products after Lotus has made them, more of a worry right now is what Proton wants to do and that they at least make a decent car to start with . If Mansory then wrecks it to sell a tiny number to people with no taste, I can live with that.suffolk009 said:
The problem actually is that everyone has unrealistic expectations of how many cars Lotus should be selling. They have ambition for selling numbers that are just not in line with the types of car they have been making. Morgan are managing to expand without trying to move into exciting new bling markets. Ariel seem to be making sufficient cars to employ a few people. Ginetta are doing rather well. Caterham were another classic example of a niche company doing rather well(albeit until recently, we'll have to see how it all pans out)
That's a poor argument. If Lotus wanted to be as 'successful' as Morgan (by your definition), they'd have to start by sacking 90% of their staff. If your definition of 'doing rather well' is selling one car, then yes, Ginetta are on a roll. With the GTE, Lotus are selling about five hundred times the market value of the G60 this year.
I'm sure Lotus would like to get in to F1 and LeMans, but they don't have the money. They can't just focus on a small amount of people who buy there cars, as they don't buy enough cars for Lotus to make a profit. No company can suvive forever without making a profit, so I think teaming up with Mansory is a good idea. Hopefully people who would never of bought a Lotus before will do.
I don't think Bahar is steering the company in the wrong direction. I think he gets what Lotus is about, and I don't think he'll forget who the buyers of the current cars are. I think he wants to improve the cars for the enthusiasts, yet to do that he needs a company that is profitable, so he had to do something to get lots of people to buy Lotus cars, and teaming up with Mansory is it.
I don't think Bahar is steering the company in the wrong direction. I think he gets what Lotus is about, and I don't think he'll forget who the buyers of the current cars are. I think he wants to improve the cars for the enthusiasts, yet to do that he needs a company that is profitable, so he had to do something to get lots of people to buy Lotus cars, and teaming up with Mansory is it.
Elise S2 in my (prejudiced) eyes is absolutely scintillating - it has every major supercar line in there, and apart from the ugly plastic grill inserts, has great detailing.
Wish they could just design something of the same standard, which is built well and drives like lotus can make it drive - then they wouldnt have to resort to Mansory or Swiss Beatz
Wish they could just design something of the same standard, which is built well and drives like lotus can make it drive - then they wouldnt have to resort to Mansory or Swiss Beatz
Oddball RS said:
What i want from the new regime is a product, not someone who makes a noise (Can't bring myself to call it music) a Footballers styling house, and old models with new engines stuffed in, and re-engineered price tags.
As YET, i see nothing worthy of praise, whether that is for old school customers or the new money.
Nor me !!!As YET, i see nothing worthy of praise, whether that is for old school customers or the new money.
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