RE: PH Blog: What makes the autobahn brilliant
Discussion
Type R Tom said:
This is quite refreshing to read this, I work in Highways and spend my life answer “you need to do something about xxx road before someone gets killed” type email / letters.
We can’t spend the whole time wrapping people up in cotton wool, if some idiot drives too fast for the conditions and crash it is usually their fault!
This!We can’t spend the whole time wrapping people up in cotton wool, if some idiot drives too fast for the conditions and crash it is usually their fault!
Of course we should all take sensible precautions. But we also have to take responsibility for our own actions. If we have to cater for the lowest common denominator, let's raise the standard of said lowest common denominator...
Riggers said:
In short, you simply don't get some sanctimonious [expletive deleted] crawling past somebody in the outside lane at 70.5mph and refusing to move over because 'they're doing more than the speed limit anyway so I don't see why anybody should want to go any faster'. And if that makes me sound like the sort of chap who sits two inches from the car in front, then I don't intend it to - it's just ruddy irritating when you want to make progress.
Realy not helping the argument with this. The amount of time I get some impatiant t****r hammering up behind trying to bully me out of the way because I'm doing 70 going past two lorrys in lane 1 and 2. Why should someone not be aloud in to lane 3 because they stick to the speedlimit? Its not about being sanctimonious, it's about having every legal right to be there. I have no sympathy for people who sit in a lane and don't pull over, but complaining about people wanting to overtake someone doing under the speedlimit? That is what motorways are for.Autobahns are far from perfect and just as full of t**ts from the lorrys who change lane with no warning to the idiots in big cars who will drive 2" from your bumper because you are doing under 120 going past a line of lorrys.
Edited by PaulMoor on Thursday 3rd May 11:25
t1grm said:
No I’m talking about 130 in a red circle. I assume that if it is in a red circle it is an enforced limit and not an advisory limit (quite happy to be corrected on that ). Quite a lot of sections of autobahn I have used (mostly Koln, Bonn, Dusseldorf region) have permanent 130 in a red circle signs.
Also the section from Frankfurt to Worms, which I used to drive quite regularly in a rental car from the airport is unrestricted but, has variable speed limit overhead gantries rather like the Surrey section of the M25. They light up with 130 (or less) in a red circle when traffic is dense. They were on nearly every time I drove that stretch of road.
Fair enough I stand corrected, pretty sure red circled numbers arent optional unfortunately :P I rarely drive in the north of Germany, Everything I drive around Munich is unlimited except for traffic (which usually brings it down to 120). Its all overhead stuff as well, so no permenent signs = no speed limit at night ). Quite a lot of sections of autobahn I have used (mostly Koln, Bonn, Dusseldorf region) have permanent 130 in a red circle signs.Also the section from Frankfurt to Worms, which I used to drive quite regularly in a rental car from the airport is unrestricted but, has variable speed limit overhead gantries rather like the Surrey section of the M25. They light up with 130 (or less) in a red circle when traffic is dense. They were on nearly every time I drove that stretch of road.
Baryonyx said:
So much of UK motorway driving is about 'being in the right' and getting your own way.
Not just driving IMO. The UK is becoming unbearable with it's national obsession for busy-bodying. We seem to have an unhealthy concern for whether others are 'obeying the rules' or 'getting away' with something. Queuing mentality magnified, I suppose. We can't bear the thought of someone getting something we feel they don't deserve or that we aren't getting.I asked my German gf about this attitude recently after driving back from Bavaria. I quizzed her about whether someone would try and block someone else from using the full length of a merge-in turn, say, or whether drivers in Germany would care about what speed others were doing. She just replied "Not at all. If someone is speeding, then they are in a hurry so we let them past. It's the Police's job to catch them, not mine and either they will or they won't. Why should I care?" Most of their lives seem to be like this and it's been something of a rude awakening for someone brought up in the UK where we laugh at 'Ze Germans' for being rules-obsessed and anal.
Much better attitude to life IMO and as a result, they are better-educated, more economically stable and actually happier than most of us seem to be. A shame.
Riggers said:
And if it sounds Utopian, I don't intend it to. I just intend it to sound a damn sight more enjoyable than driving on UK motorways
In my experience a lot of the UK problems are caused with traffic density and are most prevalent in the South east.I can drive from Teesside to London, most of which is on the M1, without any problems whatsoever. Ok sometimes there's poor lane disciplne but most drivers are fine. However are soon as you approach the M25 it all goes to s
t. Last time I did the drive I was undertaken on the hard shoulder of the sliproad from the m1 onto the M25 by an idiot in a Volvo Estate. I wasn't even going that slowly. It was like a sign that said "Welcome to hell".My sister lives in Germany and her take on the situation is that the Germans are a lot more used to rules and they abide by them. They also have a lot more rules than we do. Because they tend to do as they are told a bit more they are more trusted to behave sensibly at other times. They don't need 'no smoking' signs because everyone knows the ruls and wouldn't dream of breaking them. In the UK we are a nation of rule/law breakers.
PaulMoor said:
Riggers said:
In short, you simply don't get some sanctimonious [expletive deleted] crawling past somebody in the outside lane at 70.5mph and refusing to move over because 'they're doing more than the speed limit anyway so I don't see why anybody should want to go any faster'. And if that makes me sound like the sort of chap who sits two inches from the car in front, then I don't intend it to - it's just ruddy irritating when you want to make progress.
Realy not helping the argument with this. The amount of time I get some impatiant t****r hammering up behind trying to bully me out of the way because I'm doing 70 going past two lorrys in lane 1 and 2. Why should someone not be aloud in to lane 3 because they stick to the speedlimit? Its not about being sanctimonious, it's about having every legal right to be there. I have no sympathy for people who sit in a lane and don't pull over, but complaining about people wanting to overtake someone doing under the speedlimit? That is what motorways are for.You're absolutely right about everybody (with a legal right to be there) having, well, a right to be there. It's just that there are a lot of people who stay in lane three when they don't need to be there. In Germany, (and France and Italy and Spain for that matter) people actually move back in once they have overtaken!
Disastrous said:
Baryonyx said:
So much of UK motorway driving is about 'being in the right' and getting your own way.
Not just driving IMO. The UK is becoming unbearable with it's national obsession for busy-bodying. We seem to have an unhealthy concern for whether others are 'obeying the rules' or 'getting away' with something. Queuing mentality magnified, I suppose. We can't bear the thought of someone getting something we feel they don't deserve or that we aren't getting.I asked my German gf about this attitude recently after driving back from Bavaria. I quizzed her about whether someone would try and block someone else from using the full length of a merge-in turn, say, or whether drivers in Germany would care about what speed others were doing. She just replied "Not at all. If someone is speeding, then they are in a hurry so we let them past. It's the Police's job to catch them, not mine and either they will or they won't. Why should I care?" Most of their lives seem to be like this and it's been something of a rude awakening for someone brought up in the UK where we laugh at 'Ze Germans' for being rules-obsessed and anal.
Much better attitude to life IMO and as a result, they are better-educated, more economically stable and actually happier than most of us seem to be. A shame.
I find out driving "attitudes" in the UK to be embarrassingly bad. It's like road rage gone mad in some places.
My view is certainly not helped having driven several times in Malaysia during the last few years. Sure, they actual driving standards and views on safety are appauling (trucks and motorcycles travelling at night with every light broken is rather scary when you encounter them).
For all that, it's just accepted as "hey, this is the way we are", so most drivers are pretty cool even when chopped up by a fellow driver cutting in.
As already said, it appears to be our English attitude of "I'm obliged to complain" and also where possible to believe that our rules are simply not optional. Classic cases of that are the number of drivers who drive at 36mph in 30mph limits. Bear in mind the actual time benefit is minimal, and the only real difference is the probability that you'll get nailed by a speed camera. Linked to that, if people would just drive that 6 mph slower, there would NOT be the funding for speed cameras. So the days that you do wish to let you hair down, if you be a far more pleasant place.
My view is certainly not helped having driven several times in Malaysia during the last few years. Sure, they actual driving standards and views on safety are appauling (trucks and motorcycles travelling at night with every light broken is rather scary when you encounter them).
For all that, it's just accepted as "hey, this is the way we are", so most drivers are pretty cool even when chopped up by a fellow driver cutting in.
As already said, it appears to be our English attitude of "I'm obliged to complain" and also where possible to believe that our rules are simply not optional. Classic cases of that are the number of drivers who drive at 36mph in 30mph limits. Bear in mind the actual time benefit is minimal, and the only real difference is the probability that you'll get nailed by a speed camera. Linked to that, if people would just drive that 6 mph slower, there would NOT be the funding for speed cameras. So the days that you do wish to let you hair down, if you be a far more pleasant place.
Type R Tom said:
This is quite refreshing to read this, I work in Highways and spend my life answer “you need to do something about xxx road before someone gets killed” type email / letters.
We can’t spend the whole time wrapping people up in cotton wool, if some idiot drives too fast for the conditions and crash it is usually their fault!
Your colleagues in Cornwall do an absolutely sWe can’t spend the whole time wrapping people up in cotton wool, if some idiot drives too fast for the conditions and crash it is usually their fault!
te job in repairing roads, which when they evetually do bother inevitably over-run and need redoing very quickly. I've had two tyres destroyed by potholes left unrepaired by bone-idle Highways departments so you don't get a lot of sympathy from me I'm afraid.German said:
Disastrous said:
Baryonyx said:
So much of UK motorway driving is about 'being in the right' and getting your own way.
Not just driving IMO. The UK is becoming unbearable with it's national obsession for busy-bodying. We seem to have an unhealthy concern for whether others are 'obeying the rules' or 'getting away' with something. Queuing mentality magnified, I suppose. We can't bear the thought of someone getting something we feel they don't deserve or that we aren't getting.I asked my German gf about this attitude recently after driving back from Bavaria. I quizzed her about whether someone would try and block someone else from using the full length of a merge-in turn, say, or whether drivers in Germany would care about what speed others were doing. She just replied "Not at all. If someone is speeding, then they are in a hurry so we let them past. It's the Police's job to catch them, not mine and either they will or they won't. Why should I care?" Most of their lives seem to be like this and it's been something of a rude awakening for someone brought up in the UK where we laugh at 'Ze Germans' for being rules-obsessed and anal.
Much better attitude to life IMO and as a result, they are better-educated, more economically stable and actually happier than most of us seem to be. A shame.
Riggers said:
I'm talking about the person who doesn't pull over!
You're absolutely right about everybody (with a legal right to be there) having, well, a right to be there. It's just that there are a lot of people who stay in lane three when they don't need to be there. In Germany, (and France and Italy and Spain for that matter) people actually move back in once they have overtaken!
Fair enough, and I agree. It can be very annoying to have someone who sits in lane 3, or even 2, and dose not move over. It just wasn't clear that you were talking about lane hoggers You're absolutely right about everybody (with a legal right to be there) having, well, a right to be there. It's just that there are a lot of people who stay in lane three when they don't need to be there. In Germany, (and France and Italy and Spain for that matter) people actually move back in once they have overtaken!
(who are braking the law just as much by not pulling back in as someone speeding). Although in my (probably more limited than yours) exprince of driveing abroad is that in Germany they pull over but faster cars will try and bully you and in France it is just as bad as the UK away from the toll motorways.
says the ex saxo owner 
1st Page of the Highway code reads "Keep left unless overtaking". 65% of the windscreen lickers on UK motorways can't even apply the first rule of the highway code. Lane discipline (or lack thereof) is the raeson why driving in the UK is frustrating. There are still positives - It's great at 4am. The mongs are all in bed 
AutoBahn ettiquette - Headlights+Indicator on towards central reservation = Get out of the F*cking way. I quite like the simplicity of it.
AutoBahn ettiquette - Headlights+Indicator on towards central reservation = Get out of the F*cking way. I quite like the simplicity of it.
I'm a big fan of Germany, having spent a lot of time there with work over the past 6 years or so. The Autobahns are great of course, but I think their society and way of life has a lot going for it.
I think the suggestion made by the OP that they have a culture of letting you be a grown up is absolutely spot on. Unlike here, the Germans by and large don't abuse this freedom. One particular culture shock that sticks in my mind is wandering down a street in Hannover a couple of years ago in the wee small hours of a Saturday morning, and noticing suddenly that none of the shops had security shutters on the windows. Sadly, this is something that would now be unthinkable in any British large town or city. There were drunk people here and there (I was one), but the intimidating atmosphere of a British city at the same time, and the ever present undercurrent of violence was wonderfully absent. People were just having a good time. Youths don't hang around outside shops at night getting drunk and smashing things up. You don't see teenage mums everywhere. You see old people out on the streets at night who clearly feel infinitely safer than they would here.
I'm sure it's not utopia, and it no doubt has its problems and a criminal element like everywhere else, but these seem to be somehow less ingrained into normal everyday life than they are in the UK. The general attitude of people is also markedly different. Generally less selfish, more open and direct, and less angry and worked up.
I think the suggestion made by the OP that they have a culture of letting you be a grown up is absolutely spot on. Unlike here, the Germans by and large don't abuse this freedom. One particular culture shock that sticks in my mind is wandering down a street in Hannover a couple of years ago in the wee small hours of a Saturday morning, and noticing suddenly that none of the shops had security shutters on the windows. Sadly, this is something that would now be unthinkable in any British large town or city. There were drunk people here and there (I was one), but the intimidating atmosphere of a British city at the same time, and the ever present undercurrent of violence was wonderfully absent. People were just having a good time. Youths don't hang around outside shops at night getting drunk and smashing things up. You don't see teenage mums everywhere. You see old people out on the streets at night who clearly feel infinitely safer than they would here.
I'm sure it's not utopia, and it no doubt has its problems and a criminal element like everywhere else, but these seem to be somehow less ingrained into normal everyday life than they are in the UK. The general attitude of people is also markedly different. Generally less selfish, more open and direct, and less angry and worked up.
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