Gas-guzzling sportscars to receive purchase tax up to £23K
Discussion
Terminator X said:
To those paying mental car tax in other countries why don't you vote with your feet and leave? If enough peeps left they would get the message.
TX.
That's what is happening anyway, but the message doesn't get through. They just keep bleeding those who they think can pay. I've written letters to the relevant ministers here, but get the overwhelming feeling from their replies that they just don't care, because they aren't feeling the pain themselves. Latest scheme they've dreamt up is a SORN-system, but where you have to pay €25 each time to declare your car off the road. Almost like you're taxed on your car whether you want to tax and use it or not!TX.
Anyway, going off-topic here slightly, but hopefully for you guys the UK government will view what's happening here and realise that taxing the s
te out of the motorist doesn't always mean an increase in tax-takeEdited by Leins on Wednesday 3rd October 16:47
sealtt said:
Cars are very cheap in UK.
Compare to majority of places in the world and we get a great deal. so not surprising if some taxes are added.... but a shame if it goes thru, and less reason to stay in the country.
got to America, cars are very expensive in the UK compared to the USACompare to majority of places in the world and we get a great deal. so not surprising if some taxes are added.... but a shame if it goes thru, and less reason to stay in the country.
So, they promote CO2 as the big evil nasty pollution causer and then act surprised when a punitive taxation causes less revenue because people buy boring stop-start diesel engined blandmobiles? I'm just waiting for the backlash against diesel carcinogens when the papers get hold of that one, because, unlike the manmade Co2 debate, diesel toxicity is recognised by the WHO as a major problem.
As for a single hit tax, bugger that, I never know how long I'm going to keep a car anyway. It's varied from 2 months to 4 years so far.
As for a single hit tax, bugger that, I never know how long I'm going to keep a car anyway. It's varied from 2 months to 4 years so far.
otolith said:
Twincam16 said:
They'd never scrap VED. They'd talk about it but never actually do it, lumbering us with an extra tax.
In which case, the proposal doesn't suggest any change at all, because we currently have both annual VED and a large emissions related charge at registration.ds 
So, my reading of this is that the government have shot themselves in the foot linking VED to emissions and now want to have their cake and eat it.
Kind of like when they want to ban smoking (nearly there) and drinking (on its way) and then complain that we have an ageing population that is costing too much in pensions (double-whammy that one - lower tax take and people living longer).
Laws of unintended consequences, or short-term minority interests being given too much credence and upsetting the overall balance?
Kind of like when they want to ban smoking (nearly there) and drinking (on its way) and then complain that we have an ageing population that is costing too much in pensions (double-whammy that one - lower tax take and people living longer).
Laws of unintended consequences, or short-term minority interests being given too much credence and upsetting the overall balance?
It is this kind of logic
"It might even seem fair that guy paying the most shoulders the tax hit, and make the car more affordable to run for subsequent owners. The report argues that because of this, secondhand cars would be worth more, so handing more money back to the original buyer. The idea is that not only will the Government stop losing revenue, but that we're more likely to buy low-emission cars."
that causes the trouble. some twonk clearly thought this up after the idea as a justification to persuade normal people, having found holes in the whole scheme, that it is a good idea.
"It might even seem fair that guy paying the most shoulders the tax hit, and make the car more affordable to run for subsequent owners. The report argues that because of this, secondhand cars would be worth more, so handing more money back to the original buyer. The idea is that not only will the Government stop losing revenue, but that we're more likely to buy low-emission cars."
that causes the trouble. some twonk clearly thought this up after the idea as a justification to persuade normal people, having found holes in the whole scheme, that it is a good idea.
Max_Torque said:
Unfortunately politicians are NOT scientists. And once again, they completely fail to understand the importance of cutting "majority emissions" first. (Rather than minority ones)
For example, Car A outputs 10 chunks of polution for every km it is driven, compared to CAR B, which is only puts out 1 chunk / km.
Clearely, Car A is much more poluting. Except of course, for every km driven by CarA, 1000kms are driven by CarB. To lower overall emissions the most, which car should you tax more???
yes - but that's common sense and you get the impression that a lack of common anything (sense, manners, morals, decency etc) is a prerequisite for a a job as total fFor example, Car A outputs 10 chunks of polution for every km it is driven, compared to CAR B, which is only puts out 1 chunk / km.
Clearely, Car A is much more poluting. Except of course, for every km driven by CarA, 1000kms are driven by CarB. To lower overall emissions the most, which car should you tax more???
kwitted, fknut MPsealtt said:
Cars are very cheap in UK.
Compare to majority of places in the world and we get a great deal. so not surprising if some taxes are added.... but a shame if it goes thru, and less reason to stay in the country.
this is only a recent thing - cars over here used to cost waaaaay more than abroad Compare to majority of places in the world and we get a great deal. so not surprising if some taxes are added.... but a shame if it goes thru, and less reason to stay in the country.
Our 'special' purchase tax on cars here (42% minus a set amount based on what fuel the car uses) has already been largely abandoned in favour of a system where CO2 emissions in g/km are progressively taxed - to the extent that a Ford Mustang would cost you as much in 'CO2 tax' as the car cost in the first place. For the same reason, the V8 Bentley Conitnental is over 100.000 euro cheaper than its V12 counterpart...
I think it's a crap idea.
Firstly, I've been driving cars that dip under the CO2 threshold where you don't pay any taxes (no purchase tax, no VED) only to be dismayed at how much they actually use when driving at 130 km/h on motorways. In fact, in those conditions I'd use about the same amount of fuel in abovementioned Mustang as in the Twin Air-powered supermini I was piloting. Disgraceful.
So, taking the hugely flawed NEDC test as a basis, people who choose to drive a car that hasn't been optimised for a bench test that is largely irrelevant to actual conditions and driving habits (for instance, because it was never meant to sell on the EU market in any numbers) are paying for the 'cycle beating' efforts of other manufacturers.
Then there are the plug-in hybrids and EVs that are only in the 'zero tax bracket' because the CO2 emissions from electricity generation are not included (i.e. a fully electric car is rated at 'zero' g/km CO2).
Secondly, while I can drive 100,000 km a year in such a 'tax free' eco-car, adding greatly to congestion and pumping tons of CO2 into the atmosphere from fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) and not pay a penny, someone who buys a Ferrari because they like the way it looks in their garage pays up to 150,000 euros tax for emissions they are not erm, emitting...
That's nuttier than a containerload of fruitcakes...
If society agrees CO2 emissions need to be taxed, the tax needs to be on fuel, and nowhere else.
I think it's a crap idea.
Firstly, I've been driving cars that dip under the CO2 threshold where you don't pay any taxes (no purchase tax, no VED) only to be dismayed at how much they actually use when driving at 130 km/h on motorways. In fact, in those conditions I'd use about the same amount of fuel in abovementioned Mustang as in the Twin Air-powered supermini I was piloting. Disgraceful.
So, taking the hugely flawed NEDC test as a basis, people who choose to drive a car that hasn't been optimised for a bench test that is largely irrelevant to actual conditions and driving habits (for instance, because it was never meant to sell on the EU market in any numbers) are paying for the 'cycle beating' efforts of other manufacturers.
Then there are the plug-in hybrids and EVs that are only in the 'zero tax bracket' because the CO2 emissions from electricity generation are not included (i.e. a fully electric car is rated at 'zero' g/km CO2).
Secondly, while I can drive 100,000 km a year in such a 'tax free' eco-car, adding greatly to congestion and pumping tons of CO2 into the atmosphere from fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) and not pay a penny, someone who buys a Ferrari because they like the way it looks in their garage pays up to 150,000 euros tax for emissions they are not erm, emitting...
That's nuttier than a containerload of fruitcakes...
If society agrees CO2 emissions need to be taxed, the tax needs to be on fuel, and nowhere else.
Leins said:
But in a lot of those European countries at least they factor in the age of the cars and drop the cost of tax accordingly. Here in Rep of Ireland, they tax everything from 1982-2007 on CC regardless of age, so even something like a 25 year old BMW 535i will cost €1683 for 12 months motor tax. And new cars are subjected to CO2-related registration tax of around 40% before you are allowed drive them. Even if you bring in a secondhand car from abroad they will charge you a registration tax before you'll get your plates (eg 1990 BMW M3 is currently around €4000). Don't pay it and they'll confiscate the car
This has fairly decimated the secondhand car market, so that all the interesting stuff has disappeared, either to the scrap-heap or back abroad again. And of the new cars that are being bought, the most exotic you will find here are 2L diesels. Everyone is scared of higher rates of annual motor tax that now runs up to €2100 for anything with a higher CO2 figure since 2008. Very difficult being a car enthusiast here, and what generally happens is people either "chance it" and don't pay, or like me you just have to keep them locked away for most of the year
And the ironic thing is, because of all the scrappage schemes and taxation of the "gas guzzlers", the government here is now complaining because their tax intake from the average car is far lower than it was a few years ago. Clowns!
Glad someone's mentioned Ireland, absolute rip off for cars. Been living in the UK 4 years and the most exotic thing I've seen on a weekend back visiting the parents is an XF-S.This has fairly decimated the secondhand car market, so that all the interesting stuff has disappeared, either to the scrap-heap or back abroad again. And of the new cars that are being bought, the most exotic you will find here are 2L diesels. Everyone is scared of higher rates of annual motor tax that now runs up to €2100 for anything with a higher CO2 figure since 2008. Very difficult being a car enthusiast here, and what generally happens is people either "chance it" and don't pay, or like me you just have to keep them locked away for most of the year
And the ironic thing is, because of all the scrappage schemes and taxation of the "gas guzzlers", the government here is now complaining because their tax intake from the average car is far lower than it was a few years ago. Clowns!
Edited by Leins on Wednesday 3rd October 15:04
Up to 35% CO2 based registration tax, 22% sales tax, €2200 or so a year road tax on anything above 225gCO2/km. Land Rover sales dropped 96% (from 1000 to 40 units) in the year they introduced those rules.
An unexpected draw for my staying in the UK is the realistic opportunity to own some decently fun cars in my life!
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