RE: Focus RS - the next generation
Discussion
Centurion07 said:
Why do Ford insist on making it FWD? There must be a pretty good reason why seeing as almost everybody sems to agree that RWD or, even better, AWD, is what people want to see.
So what is it?
They (ford) are cheap, mazda and volvo developed 4wd for the same floorpan, someone at ford needs taking out back and shooting to be honest, they'd not be able to make them fast enough if they announced it was 4wd and 350bhp, it could be neon pink only and they'd still sell them by the boatloadSo what is it?
Oh come on you lot, use some common sense.
1. It was always going to be 5 door because they don't make a 3 door. Producing a 3-door shell just for this model is stupidly expensive.
2. RWD would be stupidly expensive.
3. A bespoke 4wd system would be stupidly expensive.
4. Using their existing 4wd technology would add weight and not solve the understeer problem.
This RS has to be in the region of £30k. The only way they're going to do that is with fwd and a 5 door shell.
1. It was always going to be 5 door because they don't make a 3 door. Producing a 3-door shell just for this model is stupidly expensive.
2. RWD would be stupidly expensive.
3. A bespoke 4wd system would be stupidly expensive.
4. Using their existing 4wd technology would add weight and not solve the understeer problem.
This RS has to be in the region of £30k. The only way they're going to do that is with fwd and a 5 door shell.
Centurion07 said:
Why do Ford insist on making it FWD? There must be a pretty good reason why seeing as almost everybody sems to agree that RWD or, even better, AWD, is what people want to see.
So what is it?
I suspect one of the main reasons (and this applies to the VXR Astra as well) is that ther eis not cooking model with AWD in the range. This means there's very little return on investment when tooling up the line build AWD setups for a limited build number. VW have the luxury of the platform the Golf and A3s are built on has plenty of cooking models running AWD, all the kit is there to do it already at little extra cost.So what is it?
Nick
TobyLaRohne said:
They (ford) are cheap, mazda and volvo developed 4wd for the same floorpan, someone at ford needs taking out back and shooting to be honest, they'd not be able to make them fast enough if they announced it was 4wd and 350bhp, it could be neon pink only and they'd still sell them by the boatload
Funny and trueSounds like another car not really built for true enthusiasts is in the pipeline, like the new Clio abomination.
I guess there are enough buyers out there that shop on badge and power figures for them to not have to worry about things that really matter to us as well like weight, size, keeping a hot hatch 3 door, drive train etc.
Bit by bit each new car, like this, is one step further away from its original roots that we all love. Next we'll hear there will be no manual option as well.
Sad times
I guess there are enough buyers out there that shop on badge and power figures for them to not have to worry about things that really matter to us as well like weight, size, keeping a hot hatch 3 door, drive train etc.
Bit by bit each new car, like this, is one step further away from its original roots that we all love. Next we'll hear there will be no manual option as well.
Sad times
This is a relatively low volume car so developing a 3-door body shell is a non-starter, I have never really understood why people get hung up on the 3 vs 5 thing. In general people are not buying 3-door cars, so this is why we have a 5-door Clio RS and 5-door Focus ST, the economics don't stack up to develop one and the costs to do so are BIG.
The 4-wheel drive thing is not a free lunch, it brings downsides in fuel tank size, interior space and weight. If Ford don't have a suitable system in the family, then they have to buy one in and develop it into the vehicle. This will add massive cost and making the car more expensive will make the number of people willing to buy it even smaller. This further hits the econmomics of developing a special version.
The 4-wheel drive thing is not a free lunch, it brings downsides in fuel tank size, interior space and weight. If Ford don't have a suitable system in the family, then they have to buy one in and develop it into the vehicle. This will add massive cost and making the car more expensive will make the number of people willing to buy it even smaller. This further hits the econmomics of developing a special version.
Centurion07 said:
Why do Ford insist on making it FWD? There must be a pretty good reason why seeing as almost everybody sems to agree that RWD or, even better, AWD, is what people want to see.
So what is it?
Really? It's obvious, just comes down to cost, Ford isn't a "premium product" like Audi is marketed as (even though they are just overpriced in my opinion). So they can't get away with charging another 5-10k per car to implement 4wd. That would bring it into premium motoring where it just wouldn't cut it. Keep in mind the focus platform was not designed with 4wd in mind like some VAG haldex 4wd platforms are, so costs to design a new drivetrain and fit it to an altered (therefore pricier) shell would be enormous.So what is it?
Centurion07 said:
Why do Ford insist on making it FWD? There must be a pretty good reason why seeing as almost everybody sems to agree that RWD or, even better, AWD, is what people want to see.
So what is it?
Cost. Plain & simple.So what is it?
The Sierra (and Escort that was basically a cut-down Sierra) was obviously a RWD car to start with and it is generally easier to go RWD>4WD than FWD>4WD.
Add to this the fact that the current Euro Ford range doesn't even boast any RWD models any more (i.e. no parts bin to raid and no knock-on benefits to other models) and you're looking at developing a bespoke platform for, at best, a few thousand sales.
Not going to happen.
Centurion07 said:
Why do Ford insist on making it FWD? There must be a pretty good reason why seeing as almost everybody sems to agree that RWD or, even better, AWD, is what people want to see.
So what is it?
Cost - surely? And most RS / VXR / Equivalent buyers care more about pub top trumps and traffic light grand prix than they do about handling or even know about the drivetrain? So what is it?
350bhp (mountune 400bhp), 3 door an 5 door, 4wd/rwd and £25-£30k base spec price tag......... Job done.
It really can't be that hard, Ford seems to be a company run by bean counters ATM and most recent efforts are released a lot later than rival cars and live too much on past glorys.
Ideally a new RS should move the game forward I.e M3 performance
It really can't be that hard, Ford seems to be a company run by bean counters ATM and most recent efforts are released a lot later than rival cars and live too much on past glorys.
Ideally a new RS should move the game forward I.e M3 performance
SonicHedgeHog said:
Oh come on you lot, use some common sense.
1. It was always going to be 5 door because they don't make a 3 door. Producing a 3-door shell just for this model is stupidly expensive.
2. RWD would be stupidly expensive.
3. A bespoke 4wd system would be stupidly expensive.
4. Using their existing 4wd technology would add weight and not solve the understeer problem.
This RS has to be in the region of £30k. The only way they're going to do that is with fwd and a 5 door shell.
How dare you use the voice of reason on this thread! 1. It was always going to be 5 door because they don't make a 3 door. Producing a 3-door shell just for this model is stupidly expensive.
2. RWD would be stupidly expensive.
3. A bespoke 4wd system would be stupidly expensive.
4. Using their existing 4wd technology would add weight and not solve the understeer problem.
This RS has to be in the region of £30k. The only way they're going to do that is with fwd and a 5 door shell.
You know, I know, Ford know and lots of other people know why they aren't building a 3 door AWD RS but it still doesn't stop others having a moan. It will be a brilliant car if the reviews of the new ST is anything to go by.
4WD and an engine with at least 2.5 litres and 5 cylinders, with manual and dual clutch options. Make the engine and drivetrain strong enough for 400+ HP. In other words an RS3 with a Ford badge?
Find a way to take the understeer out of the Haldex system - the aftermarket change the torque distribution don't they?
Find a way to take the understeer out of the Haldex system - the aftermarket change the torque distribution don't they?
Richie C said:
TobyLaRohne said:
4wd should be the top of everyones list, I love the focus but it needs to be 3door and 4wd for me to even consider it as an option...Ford need to take the fight to the RS3
RS3 is 5 door only.loudlashadjuster said:
Cost. Plain & simple.
The Sierra (and Escort that was basically a cut-down Sierra) was obviously a RWD car to start with and it is generally easier to go RWD>4WD than FWD>4WD.
Add to this the fact that the current Euro Ford range doesn't even boast any RWD models any more (i.e. no parts bin to raid and no knock-on benefits to other models) and you're looking at developing a bespoke platform for, at best, a few thousand sales.
Not going to happen.
I believe the Escort lost RWD after the mark 2. Mark 3 onwards were FWD. They managed to make an Escort RS that started life as FWD, why not do it again? Cost.The Sierra (and Escort that was basically a cut-down Sierra) was obviously a RWD car to start with and it is generally easier to go RWD>4WD than FWD>4WD.
Add to this the fact that the current Euro Ford range doesn't even boast any RWD models any more (i.e. no parts bin to raid and no knock-on benefits to other models) and you're looking at developing a bespoke platform for, at best, a few thousand sales.
Not going to happen.
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